class w/ fastest time on insanity

#11GlavewurmPosted 2/4/2013 5:48:06 PM
Why'd you pick Horizon? You can't have Biotic Cooldowns at that point. Which is pretty important.

Also, Singularity works as the best biotic effect for Exploding. It can be cast before they are stripped and still work fine, it keeps them grouped together even at full Protection, and it slowly eats protection in case your nuke didn't quite take the whole bar.

Warp explosions every 3 seconds is just not necessary


Okay, which is it? It takes too long to Explode, or that you don't need to Explode that often? You've said both now.
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#12Raven1229Posted 2/4/2013 6:08:34 PM
You said with Miranda and Thane you could have a warp out approx. every 3 seconds, which I find unnecessary (and ineffecient). Additionally, the setting up speed was relative to other classes since this topic is relative. I.e. What can an Infiltrator/Soldier/etc. do while you're setting up your explosions?

I chose Horizon because you don't start the game with all your upgrades. But the question pertained to the whole game, I assumed.
#13Raven1229Posted 2/4/2013 6:38:25 PM
^warp explosion, I mean. Basically, tightly packed areas with threat of instant KO from force effects are when explosions shine, in my opinion. That's not a ton of places, but here's one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzc9sfsroJA

And like I said, against Jedore, Vasir, Shadow Broker, Garrus' loyalty mission (final bosses), etc., warp explosions won't even work. Adepts are also one of the less durable classes, meaning more time in cover and less time killing. But feel free to disagree. These are just my experiences.
#14Raven1229Posted 2/6/2013 1:36:11 PM
So, Glavewurm and Mattheau: responses? Or even better, videos of Adepts speeding through levels faster than the other classes on Insanity?
#15GlavewurmPosted 2/6/2013 2:52:13 PM
My original statement was that they relied on certain squadmates and upgrades, more than other classes. So, no, my response wasn't aimed at the entire game. Vanguard probably takes that, since once they get 20 talent points they are pretty much always fighting with the absurdly high point-blank range modifier. Still, Soldier will beat them on some missions, especially if the mission is full of unchargeables. Like Grunt's recruitment.

I.e. What can an Infiltrator/Soldier/etc. do while you're setting up your explosions?


The set up time is launching a singularity while a squadmate strips them. Or Locust/ARing down their shield while you throw it. That's a 3 second GCD with some travel time and an instant cast/some shooting. So, about 1 Widow shot? A Charge and a shot?

The Combat classes will kill their target a bit before you detonate yours, but they don't AoE the target's buddies. Which is better depends on the mission.

Adepts are also one of the less durable classes


It's tied with every class except the Sentinel and Soldier. Sentinel has less HP, but Tech Armor, Soldier has more HP but less shield. Under concentrated fire, your Shield Break does more for your survival than anything else. Which is why Assault Armor Sentinels can't die, and why Vanguards even work. But it also means that there isn't really a huge difference between the classes for normal behind cover fighting, outside of Hardened AR.
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#16smeech8000Posted 2/7/2013 10:31:19 AM
Glavewurm posted...
The Combat classes will kill their target a bit before you detonate yours, but they don't AoE the target's buddies. Which is better depends on the mission.


This is about the only thing that I can put stock in from this entire thread. You'd have to look at an entire playthrough of Soldier vs. Adept side-by-side to see which one is best overall. Each encounter is too situational and a certain class or class that has the ability to employ a certain playstyle will excel. To make a blanket generalization that Adept/Soldier is fastest would require an aggregated perspective.

Raven's Horizon clips aren't really comparable because the Soldier clips are on the Scion portion and the Adepts are on the Harbinger portion. Furthermore, most YT videos are instructional in nature that highlight preferred tactics, although I contend that the majority aren't created with the primary intent of speedrunning.

That Soldier clip on Miranda's LM is insane. THAT is a speedrun clip. Here is a great Adept speedrun of the SM, but I can't find a comparable Soldier run:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOLiQgOlZh4
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#17pprincessPosted 2/8/2013 4:10:04 AM
PC clips are not even comparable to the Xbox, and most of the clips shown here are PC. PC players have all squad powers on hotkeys, whereas on Xbox you only get to hotkey two, and half the time the D pad is sloppy in comparison to keyboards. That Soldier ML "speed run" is an example of hotkey action more than anything else.

Also, we don't know how many times these players died before getting through an area. The video is, of course, the successful attempt.

The Adept is going to die before any other class. As for speedrunning, an Adept has to park longer and more often not just to set up, but to heal. You can't stick your head out and take a hit without going into the red, requiring you to sit back.

As for the SM Adept, I don't know what gun that is, but I've never had it. Whatever gun that is does far more damage than the pistol I used for most of my Adept Insanity run. It definitely gives an edge. It's hard to compare classes when guns are doing the killing, aside from who has access to which guns.
#18GlavewurmPosted 2/8/2013 8:09:54 AM
^It's the Collector AR, I think. If I remember right, it's like the weakest gun in the game (or at least AR), but really accurate. I'd personally use the Vindicator.

If you used a pistol most of your Adept playthrough, what Bonus weapon did you pick? Also even without bonus weapon training, the SMGs come in more handy than the pistol, most of the time.

It's hard to compare classes when guns are doing the killing


An Adept may not need to shoot ever, if it likes, but you will Explode things a lot faster if you use both powers and guns. Every class is best off with a mix of guns and spells. Doesn't mean you can't compare them. Every class has access to a top tier weapon in each category, sure, but the Combat classes do get perks that make their guns better. Cloak, AR, Point-Blank modifier.
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#19pprincessPosted 2/8/2013 4:35:48 PM
I think I picked sniper rifle for my bonus, but without the damage and aim enhancements of sniper classes, I abandoned using it fairly quickly. Sticking your head out of cover as an Adept is far more dangerous than an Infiltrator who can Cloak first.

But what you're saying about the damage enhancements of gun classes is sort of my point. Every class has some sort of tech or biotic power, along with guns, and like the Adept can combine powers and guns. But if your gun abilities are so far superior it's an unfair comparison. Yes, biotic explosions can do a lot of damage, but you can't rip the head off a Collector in one shot like you can as an Infiltrator. A Soldier can get hit twice before having to heal (Insanity) but the Adept is dead on that second hit.

As I recall I didn't have many problems with my Adept Insanity run except on the Haestrom final boss. OMG. I went up the left side but kept dying behind that block. Even had my older son try, and he plays FPS games. Took him 3 tries not to die. Had no problem on all that with Infiltrator, did it on one try.

That's why I suggested the videos may not be a good comparison because people are putting up their best success, and we don't see how many times they die in the process. Nobody does a YouTube of all their failures before they finally succeed. If we're talking about a speed run, I think a sturdier, gun-based class is going to finish faster, overall.