A human rogue is the best main character (arguments inside)

#1VanishingSkillPosted 11/10/2009 11:04:03 AM
I have spent quite a while trying to determine what is the most beneficial (not best, most powerful, or toughest) character to have as the main character. I have determined beyond a doubt that a human rogue is.

1. A human rogue begins with 15 cunning, 1 shy of the necessary amount to acquire all the coercion talents. One point in cunning and you'll never NEED to put in more (rogues looking forward to dual wielding anything other than daggers will likely want to invest more in strength than cunning, as cunning may well add to damage with certain talents, strength adds to damage as well as melee hit rating)

The other races are close, the main issue of this is not so much race, but class. However, over an elf for example, a human rogue has both 1 more dexterity and 1 more cunning. If an elf had the same goal of starting with 16 cunning then dumping the rest into dex, they would be 2 attribute points behind a human, nearly a full level. Additionally, magic and will are fairly useless for a rogue. While a high will might eventually benefit your character, 5 additional points means little, when you could be unlocking powerful skills with dexterity.

2. Rogues, over warriors, gain far more skills. 1 skill point every 2 levels translates to a practical ability to max out three skill lines (assuming you level to your low twenties [24 / 2 = 12, 3 lines at 4 skills each = 12]) This means you can max combat training (a practical requisite for any melee character), coercion (an extremely powerful skill that not only allows access to aspects of the game that are completely inaccessible without, but consistently nets you greater awards), and another line of your choosing, like the very powerful poison making (+4 additional damage on each of my dual striking hits that stacks with enchantments and elemental spells? yes plz)

A warrior on the other hand, while gaining more stamina (through decreased fatigue from armor and death blow) can only hope to max out two lines, as they only receive skill points once every three levels. [24 / 3 = 8, 2 lines at 4 skills each = 8]

3. Lock picking and trap disabling, while neither are requisite for any portion of the game, are both exceptionally beneficial. Contrary to many common notions, lock picking often gains you good loot, and if nothing else, additional loot, which means additional coin, and in turn means more fancy things, like powerful enchantments or skill books.

You have two options, either your main character is a rogue, or you bring a rogue along. Of the two rogues in game, one is built for archery (which is less than ideal) and has the ability to lock pick and one is built for damage, but doesn't have this ability. Your main character can have both damage (in the form of dual wielding) and the ability to pick locks.

4. Of all the classes in the game, the computer plays the rogue the worst. Without intensive micro-management, you will essentially never back stab, a complete waste of a rogue exclusive ability. Stealth is also something the computer can't particularly handle, not that that's a huge issue.

This means, in terms of disparity, there is the widest gap between AI and player control in the rogue class, and therefore the area where greatest gain can be made by controlling a rogue yourself. With some basic tactics, the game tanks just fine, no need for you to do it. The game hurls spells just fine as well (cone of cold excluded...stupid morrigan...) But it can't do any decent rogue-ing.
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"No, whats an STD? Is it a new instance or something!??!?1/1" atfxkmk
#2VanishingSkill(Topic Creator)Posted 11/10/2009 11:04:22 AM
5. Dual Wielding is the highest melee dps in the game. Unarguably higher than sword and board, and arguably higher than two handed weapons. What two handed weapons excels at, is armor penetration. High armor targets are notoriously difficult for dual wielding characters to take down. A warrior who dual wields is stuck against a high armor target, a rogue, not so much, because they can back stab. Back stab means automatic crit-like attacks, drastically mitigating the effects of armor. A rogue can keep up high dps even against a well armored target. And while both warriors and rogues can use dual wielding to apply bleeds to an armored target, assassin rogues even more so with lacerate.

6. A rogues specializations, specifically assassin and duelist, are both more advantageous to a dual wielding character than any warrior specialization. The key difference again is back stab. Dual wielding is a high stamina cost style, with a lot of clickies that can be used to increase dps. If a warrior goes full tilt and runs out of stamina he's stuck using basic attacks. A rogue is never stuck doing basic attacks. The minimum bar for rogue damage is determined by their back stab, not basic attacks. And so they are able to risk more stamina while maintaining higher damage overall.

The best dual wielding applicable talent in the game, is of course pin point strike. Auto crits for a few seconds. Auto dual wielding crits, which is a lot of crits. I don't know any enemy that survives past a pin point strike outside of bosses.

7. Rogues can kick people in the junk

8. Rogues have increased stunning synergy over warriors. Riposte is a powerful skill, whether used by a warrior or rogue. If you have multiple melee attackers on a single target, they can often be burned down in the length of the stun. Even more so if you also have coup de grace and dirty fighting. A lot of tactical fighting in this game is about locking down opponents. A rogue can do it more and hit harder when it goes happen.

9. Momentum is great, again even better with back stab. Missing a lot with two weapons? Dueling fixes that. The only comparable attack increase is in the champion spec, and it's more difficult to maintain. Not that champion is bad, it's very good, but again less synergy with dual wielding.

10. Rogues are more durable than their warrior counter parts. In the end, both rogue and warrior dual wielders will likely be wearing very similar armor and using very similar (if not the same) weapons. Rogues have evasion, and access to keen defense.
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"No, whats an STD? Is it a new instance or something!??!?1/1" atfxkmk
#3reflex7Posted 11/10/2009 11:05:50 AM
You just opened up a can of, "Dork-azz!" lol
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#4VanishingSkill(Topic Creator)Posted 11/10/2009 11:07:24 AM
inb4tl;dr

tl;dr version

They are better because I say so
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"No, whats an STD? Is it a new instance or something!??!?1/1" atfxkmk
#5three_seedPosted 11/10/2009 11:07:37 AM
7. wins the topic.

Also, this makes me want to play a Human Rogue. Thank you, kind sir. Or lady.
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"Gordon, the whole world has been taken over by a race of malevolent aliens. All of humanity is depending on you. Here's a goddamned crowbar."
#6hauntbotPosted 11/10/2009 11:10:19 AM
this is absurd. play an arcane warrior.

that aside, dwarves are blatantly the best non-mage race, period.

lets take a look at your "argument" in which you odnt even mention dwarves, shall we?

1. A human rogue begins with 15 cunning, 1 shy of the necessary amount to acquire all the coercion talents. One point in cunning and you'll never NEED to put in more (rogues looking forward to dual wielding anything other than daggers will likely want to invest more in strength than cunning, as cunning may well add to damage with certain talents, strength adds to damage as well as melee hit rating)

The other races are close, the main issue of this is not so much race, but class. However, over an elf for example, a human rogue has both 1 more dexterity and 1 more cunning. If an elf had the same goal of starting with 16 cunning then dumping the rest into dex, they would be 2 attribute points behind a human, nearly a full level. Additionally, magic and will are fairly useless for a rogue. While a high will might eventually benefit your character, 5 additional points means little, when you could be unlocking powerful skills with dexterity.


yeah, elves are terrible, but oh, where do you mention dwarf?

-you lose 1 point in cunning for 1 point in con(are you seriously telling me you never put *one* point into con? if you put even a single point into con, then this stat discrepancy is a total wash- and its not like 5 more hp is a bad thing anyways)

then in exchange you get a 10% base spell resistance that no other race gets.

obvious choice is obvious, argument over.
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#7clearwaterslickPosted 11/10/2009 11:11:26 AM
The lvl 4 bard talent breaks trash pulls in the game. Run in with your rogue and stunlock ALL the melee fighters while your other dps burns the mages. Tactics won't know whne to use this so its up to your PC.
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GT: bluemasamune: Video games are expressive works entitled to as much First Amendment protection as the most profound literature. (144 Cal.App.4th 47,58.)
#8reflex7Posted 11/10/2009 11:12:49 AM
^ Look there he is, the king of all knowledge. See him? Wrong.

*fastens flame-shield tightly around TC*
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#9clearwaterslickPosted 11/10/2009 11:13:58 AM
Human > Dwarf for IMO the true storybook ending. I discourage further discussion about this ending to avoid spoilers.
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GT: bluemasamune: Video games are expressive works entitled to as much First Amendment protection as the most profound literature. (144 Cal.App.4th 47,58.)
#10reflex7Posted 11/10/2009 11:14:00 AM
Referring to, Hauntbottom.
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