Is the Mage Origin more relevant to Dragon Age II?

#11UnfairRepresentPosted 11/21/2012 4:21:46 PM
Mattheau posted...
Depends what part you mean. The only connection between the Human Mage Warden and the plot of Dragon Age Origin is extremely minor. He was taken away at a young age, which is really the only really unique part of his backstory. Whether or not he becomes the Warden does not impact that at all.

If you are talking about why the Human Noble is pretty obviously the default they wrote the game around. The Human Noble is the default Warden origin in both games, the only origin with a decently resolved story, it is resolved in the main story regardless of origin, Howe is way too prominently used if you are not the Human Noble, several lines of dialogue either directly refer to or imply the Warden is Human regardless of what origin you play, it is the only origin with a story beyond "Duncan randomly shows up and saves the day because his entire life is devoted to skulking in remote areas for no explained reason," and the cover depicts a close representation of the Human Noble depiction (except with a helmet).


I don't understand what you're talking about.

How is there a "default" Warden at all? When does that ever come up in this game? What dialogue lines are you referring too?

There were explained reasons for Duncan's appearance: Scouting for Wardens. If anything the Dwarven Noble and Dwarven Commoner are the ones that make the most sense in that respect. Why would Duncan specifically travel to the Couslands just to hope to angle one of their kids? The Human Noble origin is one of the worst for Duncan's random appearance.

And I don't see how "It's resolved in the main story" really means anything. The story is purposefully disjointed into parts. Yes you kill Howe but you also have to kill Bhelen or Harrowmont. You have to kill Tamlem. You have to meet with Jowan and decide his fate.

I don't see how Howe's bit takes precedent at all.

Not to mention, the Male Dwarven Noble is the only Origin story with it's own potential unique quest. And if you play as another origin, the Dwarven Potential Warden is said to be a second SON. Which considering you can play as a female Dwarven Noble, this means there is a default.

So with a default male Dwarven Noble established in canon, extra quest and Duncan's more logical appearance it's kinda winning by your own logic.

Aigonroth posted...
The reason the mages don't mind control everyone is a) different people have different willpowers, someone with a strong personality or a highly disciplined mind could very likely resist the control, also technically there is another branch of the Chantry's military, the Seekers, these are the people who watch over the Templars. We don't even really know that much about this order either.


Mind control some putz.
Use the controlled putz to get close to a position of power.
Assassinate everyone in power.
Putz is now in power.


Also on your point about Richard Dawkins, Catholicism isn't the only denomination in Chistianity.


Yes but still. You can't look me in the eye and tell me Dawkins controlling the Pope and key priests wouldn't vastly knock on effect all of Christianity.
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^ Hey now that's completely unfair!
#12AigonrothPosted 11/21/2012 6:03:08 PM(edited)
UnfairRepresent posted...
Aigonroth posted...

Mind control some putz.
Use the controlled putz to get close to a position of power.
Assassinate everyone in power.
Putz is now in power.


So you are picking a peasant who likely has no combat or leadership experience to become what, an emperor, a king, the Divine, a Grand Cleric? In the case of having control over the Chantry you have to pick one of the later 2, which is pretty fool-hardy to think that you'd be able to get an assassin close enough to the Divine to be able to kill her and then try and take her seat of power.

Which by the way for any Revered Mothers, Grand Clerics, or the Divine you would have to pick a female as they are the only ones who can fulfill those positions within the Chantry.

Secondly, Blood Mages are still Mages, Templars can detect whether someone is a mage or not, and there would definitely be a maximum range of the Blood Control Spell, so the Blood Mage would have to be pretty close to have its puppet remain under its control, which increases the risk of detection immensely.

And even if a Blood Mage happened to successfully assassinate a Grand Cleric or the Divine, Grand Clerics are appointed by the Divine, and new Divines must be elected by a unanimous vote of Grand Clerics.

Which some bumpkin off the street isn't just going to be able to waltz up to where the Grand Clerics would be meeting and start casting Blood Magic.

Yes but still. You can't look me in the eye and tell me Dawkins controlling the Pope and key priests wouldn't vastly knock on effect all of Christianity.


How would Dawkins being able to control the Pope's Mind affect Orthodox Christians or any of the Protestant Denominations? You seem to think that Catholicism is the same juggernaut it was in the Medieval Era, of which it most certainly isn't. The Pope cannot just wave his hand and summon an army to go attack the heathens anymore.

Besides the majority of people who claim to be Catholic aren't super devout "we must follow the Pope's words to the letter" they more likely stick with the denomination because they were raised in it or going to church is just something they have done every week.
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"I love nailing Asari, so ageless and superior. Then you get them and they squeal like schoolgirls"- Gianna Parasini, Mass Effect 2.
#13UnfairRepresentPosted 11/21/2012 7:58:45 PM
The views on homosexuality, birth control, evolution, etc for millions hinges on the Pope.
The fate of priests of who commit crimes often hinges on the Pope.

When people need guidance they turn to priests.

The Pope suddenly passionately leaning towards secularism would have immense knock on effects for nearly all toast or at least most Christians worldwide.
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^ Hey now that's completely unfair!
#14AigonrothPosted 11/21/2012 8:18:21 PM
UnfairRepresent posted...
The views on homosexuality, birth control, evolution, etc for millions hinges on the Pope.
The fate of priests of who commit crimes often hinges on the Pope.

When people need guidance they turn to priests.

The Pope suddenly passionately leaning towards secularism would have immense knock on effects for nearly all toast or at least most Christians worldwide.


"Millions" doesn't mean much when you consider that the Human Population has passed 7 Billion.

Also, I'll be generous and say 2 Billion people on Earth are Christians, even if Catholicism made up 50% of that population it isn't going to have the massive effect you think it would.

As that would mean the other 50% is made up of the various Protestant Denominations and Orthodox Christianity, and those 2 groups of Christianity really wouldn't care what the Pope or Catholics have to say.

Also the Pope suddenly becoming more secular doesn't inherently mean anything, a Pope could still be against birth control or homosexuality and be secular, I know a few atheists who are against gay marriage.
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"I love nailing Asari, so ageless and superior. Then you get them and they squeal like schoolgirls"- Gianna Parasini, Mass Effect 2.
#15UnfairRepresentPosted 11/21/2012 9:07:20 PM
Even non Catholics would be influenced by a sudden sway in the Pope and key priests attitudes.

Not just Christians either. Lots of people would be swayed. He's a huge public figure and a religious leader.

People view him fairly or not as the voice for Christianity on Earth. When the Pope backed Evolution people who would never call themselves Catholic admitted it was the modern Christian stance.
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^ Hey now that's completely unfair!
#16AigonrothPosted 11/22/2012 12:31:05 PM
UnfairRepresent posted...
Even non Catholics would be influenced by a sudden sway in the Pope and key priests attitudes.

Not just Christians either. Lots of people would be swayed. He's a huge public figure and a religious leader.

People view him fairly or not as the voice for Christianity on Earth. When the Pope backed Evolution people who would never call themselves Catholic admitted it was the modern Christian stance.


Really you think Lutherans or Baptists or Methodists would really be swayed by a sudden change in the Pope's beliefs, Lutherans (and most other Protestant Denominations) broke off from the Catholic Church for a reason they aren't all of a sudden going to start caring about what a Pope thinks.

Orthodox Christianity has never been apart of Catholicism and as such Orthodox Christians are also not going to care what the Pope thinks, he isn't their religious figure head.

Really so Jews, whose religion is older than Catholicism are going to care about what a Christian Leader thinks? That is a funny view of Judaism.

Also Muslims, who have a long and storied history of war with the Catholic church (The Crusades) are going to care what its leader says?
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"I love nailing Asari, so ageless and superior. Then you get them and they squeal like schoolgirls"- Gianna Parasini, Mass Effect 2.
#17NPUser3000Posted 11/26/2012 8:58:21 AM
funny how a simple question about thus game brought a big debate about religion.
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#18lenmuttPosted 12/3/2012 5:16:52 PM
yes the human mage is related to hawke but the three default warden are Human Noble, Dalish Elf and Dwarf Noble caste


all the origins still happen and most of them are revered to in game.

but i doubt there is much significance if the warden is Solona/Daylen

if they are the warden they could be dead
Solona could be the kings mistress
Daylen could have gone through the eluvian with Morrigan
or various other things either way the hero of Farelden story is over


too bad they didn't add something like Hawke's mother being at lothering in DAO that would have been kinda cool she could have been the lady asking for herbs

so over all i would say it's not very important but it is kinda cool :)