Just finished this game. Anyone else feel like Riordan ruined it? *spoilers*

#1UnfairRepresentPosted 11/20/2012 11:04:19 AM
You spend like 30 hours setting up a great story and a great world and a real feeling of epicness and a huge battle approaching.

Then Riordan just straight out tells you that The Wardens had give up on you due to Loghain, warned all the other nations and begun drawing a line in the sand around Ferelden and are preparing to beat the Darkspawn back into submission once they've finished romping on the land.

Somehow right at the end of the game telling you that everything you're doing isn't to save the world, it's to save one nation that has already been decimated and turned into 60% refugees... And that if you died or walked away the world would still be saved regardless just zaps all the excitement out of everything.

What was the point in that? Just felt like someone pooping your balloon right at the apex of your fun. It wasn't even a good or important character.

Did this bother anyone else or just me?
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^ Hey now that's completely unfair!
#2MattheauPosted 11/21/2012 4:58:07 AM
You are interpreting Riordan is some weird way that makes almost no sense.

The point Riordan is explaining is why there aren't hundreds of Grey Wardens pouring into Ferelden, which is what is supposed to happen when a Blight occurs. It's already established that the Grey Wardens know about the Blight and more are on their way beyond the ones in Ostagar, but then not a single one shows up for the rest of the game that wasn't already in Ferelden. Loghain prevents the Grey Wardens from entering Ferelden, which is why they aren't coming to reinforce you.
#3UnfairRepresent(Topic Creator)Posted 11/21/2012 5:23:47 PM
Mattheau posted...
You are interpreting Riordan is some weird way that makes almost no sense.

The point Riordan is explaining is why there aren't hundreds of Grey Wardens pouring into Ferelden, which is what is supposed to happen when a Blight occurs. It's already established that the Grey Wardens know about the Blight and more are on their way beyond the ones in Ostagar, but then not a single one shows up for the rest of the game that wasn't already in Ferelden. Loghain prevents the Grey Wardens from entering Ferelden, which is why they aren't coming to reinforce you.


What does that have to do with anything? Yes he explains that the Wardens aren't there but also straight out says that the Blight would be dealt with regardless of your actions. The wardens are gathering and preparing, other nations are aware and preparing. If you fail, Ferelden falls but world won't be in danger because everyone will just box the blight in Ferelden's waste and beat it back.

That;s so anti-climatic that it hurts
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^ Hey now that's completely unfair!
#4MattheauPosted 11/22/2012 4:41:55 AM
So, your argument is that because you don't save the entire world, the game is pointless because you only save one gigantic country and spare the Dwarves from virtual genocide?

By the way, this is also factoring in that the very beginning of the game establishes there are thousands upon thousands of better trained, experienced Grey Wardens in the world and it would only take one to stop the Blight. Why you are shocked the entire world is not going to be obliterated because a rookie Grey Warden, who very, very literally has no idea what he is doing (which is mentioned multiple times at the beginning of the game) is the only hope for the entire world still eludes me.

The fact that the Grey Warden is capable of saving Ferelden at all under the circumstances is much more significant than whether or not the Blight can be stopped from destroying the whole world. Ferelden is a relatively backwards country without very many Grey Wardens in it, due to the coup attempt. The game would have been very anti-climatic if Orlais with its larger, better trained, better equipped military backed by ten times more Wardens were in the same situation or the Tevinter Imperium which is still more powerful of Ferelden, still has more Grey Wardens, and has the largest number of and most proficient mages in the world. Since, unlike Ferelden under Loghain, these groups are willing to work together and more accepting of the Grey Wardens, it shouldn't be a shock that they can stop the Blight. So, the story was always about saving Ferelden.
#5UnfairRepresent(Topic Creator)Posted 11/22/2012 9:29:04 AM
Mattheau posted...
So, your argument is that because you don't save the entire world, the game is pointless because you only save one gigantic country and spare the Dwarves from virtual genocide?


Dwarves would have been fine without you. They say so themselves. Blight means less Darkspawn for them.

By the way, this is also factoring in that the very beginning of the game establishes there are thousands upon thousands of better trained, experienced Grey Wardens in the world and it would only take one to stop the Blight. Why you are shocked the entire world is not going to be obliterated because a rookie Grey Warden, who very, very literally has no idea what he is doing (which is mentioned multiple times at the beginning of the game) is the only hope for the entire world still eludes me.


Because the entire story presents itself and sets out as a saving the world story. The first bit of the game explaining that the Darkspawn are world threatening, the Wardens are depleted and the last line before you create a character is "Maker help us all."

Then the entire game is blasting how important what you're doing is and how dangerous the Darkspawn are only for right at the end some guy to reveal they'd be contained. If you took that pointless thing out then it would be an end of the World affair again.


The fact that the Grey Warden is capable of saving Ferelden at all under the circumstances is much more significant than whether or not the Blight can be stopped from destroying the whole world. Ferelden is a relatively backwards country without very many Grey Wardens in it, due to the coup attempt. The game would have been very anti-climatic if Orlais with its larger, better trained, better equipped military backed by ten times more Wardens were in the same situation or the Tevinter Imperium which is still more powerful of Ferelden, still has more Grey Wardens, and has the largest number of and most proficient mages in the world. Since, unlike Ferelden under Loghain, these groups are willing to work together and more accepting of the Grey Wardens, it shouldn't be a shock that they can stop the Blight. So, the story was always about saving Ferelden.


You just said it yourself. It's a backwards country and now nearly everyone is dead, the capitol is damaged, half the settlements and farms are destroyed and the rest of the population are almost all refugees. Saving it doesn't mean much. And no the story wasn't about saving Ferelden. The story was about stopping the World Threatening Blight.

Which within the last act they reveal is not World Threatening. I see no reason why the Warden can't just do what he suggested to Alistair at the start and leave to find the other Wardens. Let Loghain die and destroy the blight.
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^ Hey now that's completely unfair!
#6Flare_Dragon123Posted 11/22/2012 12:59:35 PM
UnfairRepresent posted...
You spend like 30 hours setting up a great story and a great world and a real feeling of epicness and a huge battle approaching.

Then Riordan just straight out tells you that The Wardens had give up on you due to Loghain, warned all the other nations and begun drawing a line in the sand around Ferelden and are preparing to beat the Darkspawn back into submission once they've finished romping on the land.

Somehow right at the end of the game telling you that everything you're doing isn't to save the world, it's to save one nation that has already been decimated and turned into 60% refugees... And that if you died or walked away the world would still be saved regardless just zaps all the excitement out of everything.

What was the point in that? Just felt like someone pooping your balloon right at the apex of your fun. It wasn't even a good or important character.

Did this bother anyone else or just me?


Ferelden is your home. Its your entire history. Its a country. This only doesn't apply to the Dalish Elf Origin story.

Everyone that you assist, all of your friends, all of the experiences are from this one country. You are the single hand fighting against a wave of selfish ignorance imposed by the man who betrayed the king, single handedly holding back any help from his people and you think that the fact that anywhere else is possibly ready for whats going to happen ruins it?

Its not like they're saying, oh no don't worry, we got this thing, its saying that what's happening in Ferelden has a strong chance of happening elsewhere, and the reason you haven't had back-up for the past six months / year or however long the game actually takes place over is that the same guy who you've been after since the start of the game has prevented it with his paranoid nationalism.

In short, WHY IN THE HELL WOULD ANYONE SPARE LOGHAIN!!
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Sigs are for noobs
#7Super CreaturesPosted 11/22/2012 1:14:15 PM
UnfairRepresent posted...
I see no reason why the Warden can't just do what he suggested to Alistair at the start and leave to find the other Wardens.


That line right there, at the beginning of the game, throws your entire argument about how you were supposedly fighting to save the world right out the window.

Pay attention, and you would realize they talk about how if you do that, Ferelden, not the world, would fall.
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R.I.P. Eve English (Feb. 12, 1968 - Oct. 13, 2010)
Momma Eve, you will be missed.
#8AigonrothPosted 11/22/2012 2:00:25 PM
All right TC, where are you getting that most of Ferelden is now refugees, or that the population has mostly been killed off.

Also the game is about stopping the Blight in Ferelden, where is it ever said that the Blight would threaten the world?

Also as to why the Warden doesn't just jump ship and leave to go find the other Wardens, well for a Human Noble, a Mage, or a City Elf, Ferelden is your homeland, abandoning Ferelden means abandoning your family (in the case of a Human Noble and City Elf) or abandoning your fellow mages, who might as well have been your family.

Also for a Human Noble, it means abandoning your chance at revenge against Arl Howe.

That would be a very hard thing to do for most people.

For the two Dwarf origins: Orzammar would be a very prime if Ferelden is destroyed considering its entrance is within Ferelden Territory, so both of these 2 remaining also makes sense as by stopping the Blight you are saving your homeland not just Ferelden.

In the case of the Dalish Elf Origin, well Dalish Clans roam through the Brecilian Forests and use it as a resting place, if Ferelden falls that is one less place that the Dalish can use to take temporary shelter.

This doesn't even start covering our companions.

Alistair: Born in Ferelden and heir to the Throne, also the only other Grey Warden for most of the game. Abandoning Ferelden means leaving everything and one he knew to die.

Morrigan: She would probably be fine with abandoning Ferelden but she needs a Warden who will agree with her plan so the sooner she can be near the Arch-Demon the better, and the Blight is already in Ferelden might as well stick around and try and get the ritual going as soon as possible.

Leliana: She was born in Orlais but her mother was from Ferelden and it was in Ferelden where she found refuge, she already has to abandon Lothering, just up and leaving means abandoning something again.

Sten: Sten's duty requires him to find out more about the Blight, so he isn't leaving until he has more information about it, not only that he would consider it the Warden's duty to stay and try and defeat the Blight.

Shale: Shale would be fine with abandoning Ferelden, she has no love of the place.

Zevran: Zevran would also likely be fine with abandoning Ferelden initially, his job was to assassinate the Warden, so the Blight isn't really a big concern for him.

Wynne: Wynne was born in Ferelden, not only that she grew up in Ferelden's Circle, abandoning Ferelden means abandoning all the surviving Mages and all of the people left within Ferelden.

Oghren: Oghren is a warrior he wouldn't flee from the battlefield, not only that Orzammar is his birthplace and Ferelden his adopted home.

Also the game pretty much pounds it into your head that as a Grey Warden your duty is to fight the Blight as best you can, the idea is to contain the devastation.

Abandoning Ferelden just so Loghain might die to the Blight isn't exactly the best idea, not when you actually have a chance to defeat him and the Blight within Ferelden.
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"I love nailing Asari, so ageless and superior. Then you get them and they squeal like schoolgirls"- Gianna Parasini, Mass Effect 2.
#9some09guy IIPosted 12/2/2012 3:03:59 PM
UnfairRepresent posted...
You spend like 30 hours setting up a great story and a great world and a real feeling of epicness and a huge battle approaching.

Then Riordan just straight out tells you that The Wardens had give up on you due to Loghain, warned all the other nations and begun drawing a line in the sand around Ferelden and are preparing to beat the Darkspawn back into submission once they've finished romping on the land.

Somehow right at the end of the game telling you that everything you're doing isn't to save the world, it's to save one nation that has already been decimated and turned into 60% refugees... And that if you died or walked away the world would still be saved regardless just zaps all the excitement out of everything.

What was the point in that? Just felt like someone pooping your balloon right at the apex of your fun. It wasn't even a good or important character.

Did this bother anyone else or just me?


You need to pay attention to the lore built up around these blights. All but the first have gone down in such a way, where a land is taken over and eventually abandoned in hopes of containing the blight rather than letting it spread. In all cases, it's been pretty unsuccessful until a Warden manages to get in and kill the archdemon. This is also the shortest blight, by far. The Warden accomplishing what they did basically saved the world from two or more decades of war and millions of lives lost. Probably also saved Orzammar and thus basically the Templar order, considering they are the only reliable source of lyrium.

Basically, he's not telling you you're not doing this to save the world. He's saying that everyone else is preparing for the long haul because Ferelden is pretty much doomed.
#10some09guy IIPosted 12/3/2012 12:22:08 AM
UnfairRepresent posted...
Yes he explains that the Wardens aren't there but also straight out says that the Blight would be dealt with regardless of your actions.


He never states this.

Flare_Dragon123 posted...
Its not like they're saying, oh no don't worry, we got this thing, its saying that what's happening in Ferelden has a strong chance of happening elsewhere, and the reason you haven't had back-up for the past six months / year or however long the game actually takes place over is that the same guy who you've been after since the start of the game has prevented it with his paranoid nationalism.

In short, WHY IN THE HELL WOULD ANYONE SPARE LOGHAIN!!


It's a lot more complicated than this. Loghain's actions are more sound than people give credit for, largely because people probably don't realize what the war with Orlais entailed and how strained relations continued to be. Things didn't just end with the war. There were numerous assassination attempts since, thwarted largely because he's incredibly observant, not paranoid. In RtO we even learn that Cailan was basically about to allow another takeover likely causing a civil war. By stopping the Orlesians from entering he probably prevented a civil war after the events of the game, if not an outright takeover. He was also not unaware of the need for help. The entirety of the game the two of you are largely doing your part to gather the same allies, only you go after the elves and he tries for Tevinter.

Finally, Ferelden was pretty well doomed but for the Warden regardless of Loghain's actions. Ostagar was unwinnable. One look at the army of darkspawn (stand atop the bridge and look at the torches that move past the horizon) should make that clear. Gaider has stated that, if Duncan had survived, even he would have abandoned Ferelden by that point and set up for the long haul. In other words, there's this idea that the Wardens would have arrived and instantly everything would've been better when, more likely, they'd take one look and go right back to Orlais.