sigh....another God of War/DMC wannabe?? (not trolling)

#11Cloud19Posted 6/4/2009 11:02:13 AM
And you do realize that the DMC-like nature of the modern 3D titles is further beyond any action relevant in the series thus far. You jump and you hit things at different angles. That isn't very complicated or tremendously actiony.

I'm not suggesting Castlevania needs to emulate DMC and other pure action games, just pointing out that action is an important part of the series and Bethesda knows nothing about action.

It suits the subject matter well enough, but it seems the subject matter is somewhat lost on you. He said a "Simon's Quest" type game with more emphasis on exploration instead of mindless hack-n-slash. So a game that doesn't focus on kill-kill-kill, but dunegon design, town interaction, puzzles, with intelligent enemies and Zelda-esque encounters that would already bump up the action from the arguable "best game in the series (Symphony)" is more than enough.

A game with solid dungeon design, interesting town interaction, solid puzzles, and intelligent AI all fits the Legend of Zelda series infinitely better than Bethesda's RPGs (except town interaction but that's hard to mess up). It's not that I don't understand the style he's talking about, just that I doubt Bethesda's ability to make it. All Bethesda can do is open-world exploration. That's it. And they're generally bland as **** too. I'm not against the Simon's Quest style being translated to 3D, just Bethesda being the one to attempt it.
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#12DethaPosted 6/4/2009 2:08:16 PM
I'm not suggesting Castlevania needs to emulate DMC and other pure action games, just pointing out that action is an important part of the series and Bethesda knows nothing about action.

I'm saying you're wrong. Have you played Fallout 3? That game has a lot of great action.

A game with solid dungeon design, interesting town interaction, solid puzzles, and intelligent AI all fits the Legend of Zelda series infinitely better than Bethesda's RPGs (except town interaction but that's hard to mess up). It's not that I don't understand the style he's talking about, just that I doubt Bethesda's ability to make it. All Bethesda can do is open-world exploration. That's it. And they're generally bland as **** too.

I'd say you're wrong about Bethesda on those levels. Fallout 3 proves they can do great, un-bland town interaction (that actually is much ****in' deeper than Zelda, that's for sure), un-bland open world exploration, un-bland dungeon design and great combat. Oblivion even proved they could have great dungeon design - though it was few and far between. And everything Bethesda's done since Morrowing isn't as bland as the 3D Castlevanias to come out thus far.

I think they're more than capable of making things more dynamic all around to fit the direct nature of a dungeon crawling action game with RPG elements. Fallout 3 was already a tremendous improvement over Oblivion in every single regard.
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#13JuanCarlos1Posted 6/4/2009 2:25:35 PM
I remember playing DMC1 for the first time and saying that this was the closest to a good 3D Castlevania that I had ever played. CV is about the atmosphere, music... and crosses ;P and of course Dracula


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#14Cloud19Posted 6/4/2009 2:40:20 PM
I'm saying you're wrong. Have you played Fallout 3? That game has a lot of great action.

Fallout 3 was an improvement over Oblivion, but it still didn't have a good combat engine. The FPS elements were very poor. The only saving grace was VATS. It was a fun game, but due to all the stuff to be done in the wastes. It's an open-world exploration RPG. At that it succeeded. But that is not the same style of game we need for a Castlevania, nor is it like Simon's Quest.

I'd say you're wrong about Bethesda on those levels. Fallout 3 proves they can do great, un-bland town interaction (that actually is much ****in' deeper than Zelda, that's for sure), un-bland open world exploration, un-bland dungeon design and great combat.

Again, the only good part of Fallout 3 was the open world exploration. Towns were a huge step up from the borefest that was Oblivion, but I'd hardly say they were great either, I'm not sure what "dungeons" you're referring to, and the combat system was still pretty poor outside of VATS (which was just a 3D iteration of the targeting system seen in Fallout and Fallout 2 anyway).

Oblivion even proved they could have great dungeon design - though it was few and far between.

The dungeon design was passable at best. Nowhere near the level of LoZ if that's the comparison you are trying to draw here.

And everything Bethesda's done since Morrowing isn't as bland as the 3D Castlevanias to come out thus far.

That's not saying much and you know it.

I think they're more than capable of making things more dynamic all around to fit the direct nature of a dungeon crawling action game with RPG elements.

But again, you're not really basing this on anything since they've only ever made open-world RPGs.
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#15DethaPosted 6/4/2009 3:06:43 PM
Fallout 3 was an improvement over Oblivion, but it still didn't have a good combat engine. The FPS elements were very poor. The only saving grace was VATS. It was a fun game, but due to all the stuff to be done in the wastes. It's an open-world exploration RPG. At that it succeeded. But that is not the same style of game we need for a Castlevania, nor is it like Simon's Quest.

Its style could easily be translated to a game like Simon's Quest, is my point. And I disagree on the FPS aspects. VATS was great but a FPS is a FPS, and it had pretty good FPS combat, mixed with role-playing aspects. Far from poor, if you leveled correctly.

Again, the only good part of Fallout 3 was the open world exploration. Towns were a huge step up from the borefest that was Oblivion, but I'd hardly say they were great either, I'm not sure what "dungeons" you're referring to, and the combat system was still pretty poor outside of VATS (which was just a 3D iteration of the targeting system seen in Fallout and Fallout 2 anyway).

I disagree. The towns had plenty of quests to undertake and there were plenty of towns to undertake quests from. Dialogue trees were really fun to dilly-dally with. "Dungeon" is an umbrella term in RPGs for anything that's, well, like a dungeon, and there were several good ones in Fallout 3.

The dungeon design was passable at best. Nowhere near the level of LoZ if that's the comparison you are trying to draw here.

No, but Legend of Zelda dungeons aren't really Castlevania style. However, Oblivion's are. Tricks and traps in a non-linear dungeon with linear paths.

That's not saying much and you know it.

I think getting a few Game of the Year awards beats LoI and CoD any day.

But again, you're not really basing this on anything since they've only ever made open-world RPGs.

I'm basing it off of the improvement I've seen in the combat and dungeon exploration.
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#16weirdneighborPosted 6/4/2009 3:14:16 PM
I wouldn't say that SOTN is an example of thinking outside the box. It basically copied everything Metroid did before it. Not to say that detracts from the quality of the game, as it's my favorite entry in the series, but still.
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#17Cloud19Posted 6/4/2009 4:16:26 PM
Its style could easily be translated to a game like Simon's Quest, is my point. And I disagree on the FPS aspects. VATS was great but a FPS is a FPS, and it had pretty good FPS combat, mixed with role-playing aspects. Far from poor, if you leveled correctly.

You don't play FPS that often do you? Fallout 3 did not function well in that regard.

Anyway, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I for one am glad Konami isn't foolish enough to trust their properties to Bethesda though!
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The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion...draws all things else to support and agree with it.--Sir Francis Bacon
#18DROSSPosted 6/4/2009 6:41:45 PM
Simon's Quest and SOTN were the result of "outside of the box" thinking


SOTN was the result of taking huge inspiration in Metroid. Get your facts straight.


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#19DethaPosted 6/4/2009 9:14:11 PM
You don't play FPS that often do you? Fallout 3 did not function well in that regard.

Aw, geez, actually almost every one under the sun. The worst FPS mechanics I've played this generation were Bioshocks. Stick with magic and a wrench in that game.
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#20ChibiMaddiChanPosted 6/5/2009 8:54:12 AM
There's nothing wrong if this game is getting inspiration from GoW. (Hell, SOTN and all games fashioned after it were inspired by Metroid...) Actually, it makes sense gameplay wise when translated to 3D. Like with the earlier titles, where you travel through forest and the like before you get to the castle, fighting monsters. In this game, you travel through areas until you get a castle. (Anyone else think the mask might mean an appearance by Camilla?)

I don't get a GoW vibe in any other respect. Belmonts were fighting monsters long before Kratos was. And they were using whip like weapons before him too. Yeah, it's chain-like in this game now, but it doesn't look anything like Kratos' weapon and I think they were doing it more in respects of it making sense that you could defeat powerful monsters with it. (And I think it's more of a throwback to the cross sub weapon and the whip itself. Like a sexy hybid, lmao.)

I may be missing the boat on how it's literally a rip or wannabe completely of GoW let alone DMC, other than a guy fighting monsters, some of which are big, in 3D, with a whip like weapon. And speaking of that, DMC and GOW weren't the first to do it either...they just defined the way they did it. If this CV does the same, then it would be doing it's own thing, just like those games are.

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