questions

#1OtataralPosted 5/26/2010 6:50:53 PM
Hey guys. Just started playing this game the other day, thanks to a friend of mine. I'm fairly noobish so i was wondering if anyone could give me advice on Master Yi, and Zilean. I've played both characters and find them a lot of fun. though I am curious how powerful they are in the long run.

any advice, or even other character suggestions would be great, thanks.
#2CalmOfEmptinessPosted 5/26/2010 7:36:26 PM
I'm not sure about how Master Yi works right now, but I can help you with Zilean.

Zilean is really cool and he's a "Mage." That means that he excels at hitting the enemy hard within the span of a few seconds. Other similar characters are Ryze and Annie. This makes him different from characters like Tristana and Ashe who can pump out damage over a long period of time. However, Zilean is different from most mages in that he lacks their same punch and absolutely powerful Stuns, but brings the ridiculous ability to run away and stay alive (this is called survival) that many mages lack. First and foremost, he also helps his team do their job better.

When you play Zilean or any Mage, you want to play conservatively. You should stay in the back of conflicts, let your tanks go in first, and do alot of damage to someone key on the opposite side if you can. Most mages have to worry about going too far into the hands of the enemy, but Zielan not so much. Don't let this go to your head, though, or you won't be much help. However, if you keep an eye on your mini-map, set up wards, and generally know where the enemy is, you can be quite reckless, and it's a lot of fun.

Zilean's main (and kind of his only) damage tool is his Time Bomb. Learn how Time Bomb works. I can give you a few tips:

-Time Bomb can go on your allies or enemies. It never hurts allies.
-Time Bomb can be removed via Cleanse, Quicksilver Sash, or similar stuff like Remove Scurvy.
-Time Bomb will explode one three conditions: you already probably know about the timer, but it will also explode if you place a second Time Bomb on the target, or if the target dies. You can farm quite well if you place a Bomb on a minion with low HP, then kill it with your regular attack.
-Time Bomb doesn't make minions or towers attack you (this is called aggro, or "call for help"), at least until the next patch.
-Enemy Zileans can negate your Time Bombs, and you can, too. The previous Time Bomb doesn't explode if this happens.
-If you use Rewind after using Time Bomb the first time, you can get another Time Bomb ready very soon (if you have the maximum cooldown from items, runes, and masteries, this works better), and you can place another on the target. Like I said earlier, this will make the first Bomb explode, and the new bomb will explode after 4 seconds.

Rewind is very important. If its up, you generally want to use it, and I'll explain why in a bit.

Time Warp is a very cool ability. Use it on friendlies who are chasing an enemy (or on yourself), use it to escape, use it to slow down an enemy so all your buddies can kill them, etc, etc. If you get maximum levels of Time Warp and Rewind, you can constantly use this ability on Zilean and make him go super fast all over the freaking map.
#3CalmOfEmptinessPosted 5/26/2010 7:36:44 PM
And of course there's his ultimate, ChronoShift. You should know what it does. This is why you want to use Rewind as much as possible, as this has a long cooldown without spamming Rewind. You can use it on yourself or on a friend. If you learn to time it right and use it on yourself, you can attack an enemy while they're at their tower and kill them, then revive because of the effect, and scurry out with your life intact. This is also very useful if you use it on a buddy with alot of HP who is charging headfirst into enemy hands. Now, the better you get and the better your opponents get, they will usually ignore someone who has those nifty hourglasses hovering around them, so you need to be smart. Put it on a guy who is doing tons of damage and has low HP, and you will force your enemies to attack them, or force them to ignore them. Don't jump the gun and use it at the beginning of the battle, use it at a pivotal point, like when an enemy Mundo is running straight for your Tristana or something. If you need to retreat, use it on an friend with alot of Armor, Magic Resist, and HP. The enemy will be frustrated when they attack them, and one of two things will happen: either you and your other frail teammates will escape, or all of you will escape.

Zilean runs out of mana very, very quickly, so be careful and manage it well. If you can get the Ancient Golem buff, get it. It's kind of hard to ask people for the buff, but you really should get priority to get it.

Now, here's some ideas for items for Zilean. At first, since you're new want to focus on helping your team through cooldown and survival.

Innervating Locket
-This gives Zielan good mana regen, as well as a good chunk of HP and Mana, and it even gives decent health regen. This will also help your buddies quite a bit. If you get this item, you should probably get the Sapphire Crystal, build it into a Catalyst. The Catalyst will help you ALOT from the early going up until about level 11 or 12. Then you can build it into a Locket. When you use Rewind with this item, you will be almost refunded your mana immediately.

Chalice of Harmony
-This is a great item to get early on, and will help your mana regen a bit. Remember that the Passive works like this: the lower your mana, your mana regen increases. So if you have 12 Mana Regen per 5 seconds, and you have 0 Mana, then you will 100% more Mana Regen, which is 24 Mana Regen per 5 seconds.

Soul Shroud
-This is also nice and makes you even more of a support dude, as it helps your teammates with cooldown and mana regen. And, of course, the mana regen, cooldown helps you, as well as the HP.

Mercury Treads
-These are probably your best bet for boots for Zilean, and this will help to make you unkillable.

Spirit Visage
-Get this if you have a Soraka, Taric, Alistar, or Nidalee. You will enjoy the healing you get, and the cooldown, and the magic resist.

Glacial Shroud
-This item gives you mana, armor to go with your HP, as well as cooldown, and makes a good final item.

With this combination, you have good mana regen, pretty good armor, HP, and Magic Resist, and either full or max cooldown (Soul Shroud - 15%, Spirit Visage - 12%, Glacial Shroud - 20%, the max cooldown is 40%).
#4CalmOfEmptinessPosted 5/26/2010 7:43:23 PM
When you get better, you can eventually start using a more Ability Power-oriented build. Here are some items I recommend:

Archangel's Staff
-Get a Sapphire first, then build it into a Tear of the Goddess. Build that into an Archangel's Staff. Zilean will NEED the mana, and this item gives him a ton of it. It also gives him alot of Mana Regen, although nothing will solve that problem entirely. If you get a Tear of the Goddess/Archangel's Staff, stand in the healing pool whenever you go back to base and just spam all of your abilities. You will increase the mana you get from the item, and you won't have spent any mana.

Mejai's Soulstealer
-This is probably a mandatory item for most Mages. Zilean is almost made for this item because he can run in, get a kill, and run away and keep his stacks intact. ChronoShift doesn't count as a death, so Zilean keeps his stacks even if he dies under ChronoShift. Play conservatively and try to keep your stacks, and you will own enemies.

Innervating Locket
-You will still need survivability, and this still gives it to you. A chunk of health, a chunk of mana that goes well with Archangel's Staff, and it lets you use Rewind almost for free.

Chalice of Harmony
-You still need some mana regen, and this will give you emergency mana so you can escape when you are low on mana, and the smidge of magic resist is always nice.

Sorc Boots
-Merc Treads are still important for handling teams who have guys that can spam stuns, but Magic Penetration is the way to go for mages.

Void Staff
-Again, Penetration is the way to go for mages, and if you cause problems for the enemy team, they will probably gear up to counter you, often with Banshee's Veils. This will ensure that you will be doing good damage, and you get AP.

Zhonya's Ring
-The king of AP items. The Active and ChronoShift will make you super annoying to fight, not to mention making your bombs very powerful.

Glacial Shroud
-Armor, Mana, Cooldown. Everything that is good. Get this if enemy physical attackers are getting troublesome.

Frozen Heart
-Don't get this item. It's excessive from Glacial Shroud, and your money is better spent elsewhere. You should be running out of range when against enemies who right click to attack, anyway.
#5shadeauxPosted 5/26/2010 8:18:07 PM
Nice advice Calm- you didn't mention rod of ages though, what are your thoughts on that? Generally I'll try to bumrush this when I play Zil to get it maxed sooner, than go for other AP items later. I've been playing around with the Deathfire Grasp a little as well recently... Although 90% of the time I forget to use its active ability, it basically results in a triple time bomb damage-wise if you pop it right at the start.

Also, I don't think remove scurvy applies to the bombs anymore, although maybe that's just me missing the fact that I got double bombed and am only feeling the 2nd bomb when I'm playing as gangplank...
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Even a blind monkey finds an acorn
gamertag: Oy Le Bumbler (w/sc/l)
#6IWorkAtheBucksPosted 5/26/2010 8:26:23 PM
Zilean is good if played correctly, and gives the team an global advantage at lvl 1.
He is a support role.


Honestly, Yi is fun when at lower lvls but usually sucks later.

Last patch they buffed his healing move A L O T and changed his passive so he seems to be getting more play. Grab a chalice of harmony and he seems to be self sufficient.
He's a decent hero and better in 3v3 than 5v5.
He is a carry/melee dps role.
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(>.)>
#7CalmOfEmptinessPosted 5/26/2010 11:47:37 PM
Nice advice Calm- you didn't mention rod of ages though, what are your thoughts on that? Generally I'll try to bumrush this when I play Zil to get it maxed sooner, than go for other AP items later. I've been playing around with the Deathfire Grasp a little as well recently... Although 90% of the time I forget to use its active ability, it basically results in a triple time bomb damage-wise if you pop it right at the start.

I probably should have mentioned Rod of Ages, actually.

I personally hate RoAs because they are super inefficient gold-wise. If I am going to get an RoA, I would rather grab a Rylai's Scepter for about the same price. I can see it's usefulness on Zilean, because he just runs straight out of mana, though. I don't really have much of an opinion on it.

However, since I mostly parrot things I've heard top players say and do, RoA is a nice item on Zilean if you know you are going to get hit. However, I think that Zilean can be played safely enough that Innervating Locket is all he needs for survivability.

Deathfire Grasp is another item I should have mentioned. It's GREAT against teams stacking HP. If Zielan has a Mejai's, he can grab a Deathfire and it will give him everything he needs, and the nuke will just make him even more of an asset to the team.

A Zilean should probably grab a Lucky Pick if the enemy has champs who have high natural HP or who are known to stack HP a bit (Blitzcrank and Alistar have high natural HP, while Cho'Gath and Mundo are known to stack Warmog's), and watch the enemy team. If they are stacking HP, then he should upgrade the Pick into a Deathfire. Otherwise, they can then sell the Pick.

Also, I don't think remove scurvy applies to the bombs anymore, although maybe that's just me missing the fact that I got double bombed and am only feeling the 2nd bomb when I'm playing as gangplank...

Ah, I dunno. I know for sure it USED to get the Bombs off of me when I played Plank, but since he got nerfed, I haven't touched him.