Urgot got worse?

#1Xano1234Posted 12/15/2010 1:16:38 AM
I know that he technically got buffed, but right now he seems much weaker than he normally should be.

He cannot harass as well early on because his Acid Hunter does LESS damage. Half as less. That is huge. His base attack got nerfed meaning his early game is even crappier.

His corrosive acid got changed to physical damage, but now enemies that stack armor he does even LESS damage to.

Also, the armor pent got nerfed big time.

Think about it like this. A typical tanky char will have 100+ armor. For this scenario lets just say he has exactly 100.

At level 5 his E would normally reduce armor by flat 30. So if the enemy has 100 armor, they now have 70 armor.

Now his E at level 5 reduces armor by 20%. So if the enemy has 100 armor, they now have 80 armor......What? This is a nerf, not a buff. Also it doesn't scale right with bonus damage from Manamune and Atma's. The enemy has to have 150 armor in order to get the same effect as the flat 30 the previous E did. Urgot was a very good squishy character before this "buff" because a typical carry has around 60-80 armor on. Reduce that by 30 and that is a lot. His E now only reduces that armor by 12-16 instead of flat 30.

His base attack at level 18 used to be 109. His base attack at 18 now is 116.4. Better, but hurts his early game when he was actually useful.

His acid hunter before update did 150+76.3 at level 18, so essentially 226.3 per acid hunter.

His acid hunter now does 135+98.94 at level 18, so essentially 233.94 at level 18. Barely better damage late game, less technical damage because of the less armor pent from his E and lower damage during early game.

If you actually do the math, Urgot got NERFED. His early game is much worse and the added damage from his ratio's is barely noticeable. His AoE debuff debuffs LESS unless the enemy is stacking serious armor and doesn't scale right.

The only thing that DID get buffed without some kind of hidden nerf was his shield, which gains a tiny 80 health boost.







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#2MagickHUNTERPosted 12/15/2010 1:22:05 AM
Poorgot.
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#3KasaiAisu1Posted 12/15/2010 1:23:54 AM
It surprises you that Riot doesn't care at all about Urgot?
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#4OctansPosted 12/15/2010 1:27:34 AM
I think RIOT is going to hotfix the whole manamune thing, or possibly change it next patch. If they don't, that is just bs.

Oh well. This little change gives me an excuse to play urgot, and no one complains because they think he got buffed.

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#5Tali_ZorahPosted 12/15/2010 1:57:03 AM
Let's pick at his post and see if it heals

I know that he technically got buffed, but right now he seems much weaker than he normally should be.

He cannot harass as well early on because his Acid Hunter does LESS damage. Half as less. That is huge. His base attack got nerfed meaning his early game is even crappier.


I still rape squishies in the early game. A slight early game nerf in exchange for a huge late game buff? I'm good with that.




His corrosive acid got changed to physical damage, but now enemies that stack armor he does even LESS damage to.

Also, the armor pent got nerfed big time.

Think about it like this. A typical tanky char will have 100+ armor. For this scenario lets just say he has exactly 100.

At level 5 his E would normally reduce armor by flat 30. So if the enemy has 100 armor, they now have 70 armor.

Now his E at level 5 reduces armor by 20%. So if the enemy has 100 armor, they now have 80 armor......What? This is a nerf, not a buff. Also it doesn't scale right with bonus damage from Manamune and Atma's. The enemy has to have 150 armor in order to get the same effect as the flat 30 the previous E did. Urgot was a very good squishy character before this "buff" because a typical carry has around 60-80 armor on. Reduce that by 30 and that is a lot. His E now only reduces that armor by 12-16 instead of flat 30.


What tanks stop at 100 armour? Every tanky type I've seen goes to at least 150, usually about 200, and sometimes upwards of 300. At 100 armour, it's a nerf. At 150 armour, it's equal. At 200 armour, it's a buff. Urgot has NEVER had a problem with the squishy champions, his problem was when going up against tanky types. Now, not just with his E, but also with Last Whisper (which I now consider core on Urgot), he's doing good damage against the tanky types as well. You also forget that now that Corrosive Charge is boosted by AD, it'll scale much better. The old Corrosive Charge was just for Q lockon, the damage was negligible already.



His base attack at level 18 used to be 109. His base attack at 18 now is 116.4. Better, but hurts his early game when he was actually useful.

His acid hunter before update did 150+76.3 at level 18, so essentially 226.3 per acid hunter.

His acid hunter now does 135+98.94 at level 18, so essentially 233.94 at level 18. Barely better damage late game, less technical damage because of the less armor pent from his E and lower damage during early game.


Again, I'll take a slight early game nerf (and don't kid yourself, it's seriously only a slight nerf), for a substantial late game buff any day. His Q spam now scales better with AD, he's performing better against the tanky types, and, again, he's NEVER had a problem with the squishies. And like I said before, I'm still raping the squishies in early game very easily. Why, just last game, Trundle and I overwhelmed a Lux and Shen combo at level 3... and we didn't even focus on Lux first. Urgot's early game may have seen a small nerf, but he's still a very powerful laner.




If you actually do the math, Urgot got NERFED. His early game is much worse and the added damage from his ratio's is barely noticeable. His AoE debuff debuffs LESS unless the enemy is stacking serious armor and doesn't scale right.

The only thing that DID get buffed without some kind of hidden nerf was his shield, which gains a tiny 80 health boost.


This is ONLY if you look at Urgot's BASE stats. Who the hell plays a champion with only base stats? That's like saying Veigar is crap because his spells have low base damage. They still have a 1:1 AP ratio which is extremely powerful. Urgot is much the same.
#6Xano1234(Topic Creator)Posted 12/15/2010 2:29:31 AM
You look at a champion with base stats because you can make ANY champion look good with a full item set.

That doesn't mean you are going to get anywhere near your items if your champion cannot compete with the rest.

Played only a couple games with Urgot and noticed that I was doing significantly less damage than normal, especially early game.

By mid game previous with Urgot I was able to basically instakill anyone that isn't a tank and that is foolish enough to attack me. Not I try to kill a Yi that I have exhausted and he still somehow manages to kill me.

Urgot's late game is still laughable, even against tanks. Urgot was in that niche where he could do everything. Now they shoved him into a DPS role where he is outshined even more by everyone.

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#7The DisturbedPosted 12/15/2010 4:46:58 AM
I don't know about you. But he's powerful now. Lvl 18 just 1v1 a morde in the jungle and tore him apart.
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#8Tali_ZorahPosted 12/15/2010 5:05:43 AM
You don't need a "full item set" to make a champion look good, but you do need some items. People limit their core item build to 2-4 items for a reason. They are items that are generally always useful, without costing too much money, and really brings out the strength of the champion.

My point still stands. Without items, ALL champions are crap. Some less so than others, but things like AD/AP ratios, or bonuses given from specific items, are very important things to consider when building a champion. For example, Malzahar has no chase / escape ability. Rylai's and Boots of Swiftness become amazing for him. Kassadin has a flash on a short cooldown. Rylai's and Boots of Swiftness are far less useful for him than they are for Malzahar. Veigar has a 1:1 AP ratio on all his spells. Mordekaiser has, what, like a 0.1 - 0.3:1 AP ratios on his abilities. Zhonyas is nowhere near as effective for Mordekaiser as it is for Veigar.

While you can use base stats for certain starting points, I typically use them simply to see how effective an Atma's / Manamune / Archangels is on a champion, you really need items to bring out the strength of a champion.

And I have to say, Urgot was NEVER an instakill to anyone. Even squishies take a few hits to kill. And if you're having trouble killing things now? You're not building him right. Or not playing him right. One of the two. Perhaps both.
#9MasterjimmyPosted 12/15/2010 5:27:25 AM
I have no issues killing champs. I just went 7/3/7 in my last game laning against the new champ and zilean, Just build Last Whisper then Youmuu's Ghostblade and you are golden.

I even put points into my W (2 at the start to stop the bomb's damage) and I still killed the new champ in 2 hits with a lv 3 charge and 2 lv1 acid hunters.

They need to fix the manamune/Atma's Impaler scaling and add on hit status with his Q and he will be golden.
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#10DCDWPosted 12/15/2010 5:33:21 AM
I dunno, Urgot seems awesome now to me. You forgot one thing in your 100 armor factor and that's runes. I run 25 ArPen rune page with Urgot and it's rediculous how much early game damage he does running on minimal items. Manamune -> Boots suitable for whoever opponents are -> Last Whisper = Lollerskates, and that's attained relatively early game. Seriously, Urgot's damage just takes off like a rocket during the course of a game post patch.

I'm not sure the order in which these effects are applied so I'll just kind of list them all without any order

100 armor (Target)
-25 Arpen (Rune page)
-20% Armor
40% ArPen (Last Whisper)

Also +40 damage from LW and whatever amount you get from Manamune and you're laughing.
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