Who's to blame in this vid?

#61Lord SojiroPosted 11/9/2012 12:28:52 PM
Both made mistakes, Soraka made the bigger one in my opinion, for reasons that have already been stated.

I see this happen a lot in games though. A low-health enemy will be forced to back, yet everyone will chase him to try to kill him, leaving your teammate to die to the enemy team. Fact is, the low-health enemy who was going to back was forced out of the fight anyway, so you're kind of gimping your team when you leave your team and throw away your supporting/dps to actual remaining threats.
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#62happyscrub1(Topic Creator)Posted 11/9/2012 12:29:41 PM(edited)
Underwater keeps talking like I should't ward if there's no dragon. >.> You DON"T want your support to ward?
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#63samuricexPosted 11/9/2012 12:31:55 PM
If you're the support, you're supposed to be the ADC's ***** and stick close to him in every fight.
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#64UnderwaterAirPosted 11/9/2012 12:44:20 PM
Underwater keeps talking like I should't ward if there's no dragon. >.> You DON"T want your support to ward?

Give me the whole replay and I can make a better assessment. All I'm saying is:
-you chose a horrible time to go ward
-you should've stuck to your carry after he made that effort to come in and save you
-imagine what you would've been saying if your carry just ignored your plight and kept farming the lane ignoring you -> fiddlesticks might have been perfectly fine to fear/silence/drain you and Ezreal would've been happy to burst you possibly killing you with ignite and then been perfectly happy to just flash away to safety with an exhaust dropped on you for a very nearly sure kill or on skarner for a get away, and now we'd have to listen to you whine about how Graves was such a bad carry that he didn't move in to help you when you got yourself caught there
-you 100% should've backed off of Fiddlesticks and went with your Graves to help him in that fight in which I'm 90% sure you two would've won and forced Arcane/Flash from Ezreal to escape

Solo queue woes.
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#65angelwkw3Posted 11/9/2012 12:57:04 PM
samuricex posted...
If you're the support, you're supposed to be the ADC's ***** and stick close to him in every fight.


No, Graves messed up more than Soraka. He blew his abilities on Fiddlesticks then decided to run AWAY from Soraka and Skarner to straight up duel Ezreal when he doesn't have Ignite, Ezreal does, and he has no abilities other than has ultimate. If Graves had just followed his team Ezreal would've backed off after a few auto attacks. If Ezreal chased he walks into smoke screen, the rest of the enemy team and Soraka would've been in range to heal him.
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#66Quiet_NoisePosted 11/9/2012 1:19:37 PM
MTRDrunkard posted...
Also you are a support, so best not to initiate a fight.


I.

I just.

Never.

NEVER have I literally been made mad by reading words on a message board.

In twelve years, never.

Until now.

You are either the greatest troll ever, or the reason I hate this game, as a support main. If you are a troll, then sit back and sip from your chalice, enjoying my tears.

If you are being legit with this post, open your eyes and realize that it is my job to make opportunities for you, period. I make opportunities to keep you alive in bad moments, I make opportunities to get you fed in good moments. That's it. Nothing more.

This was not a case of a single player's fault, by the way, it was the lack of communication; Graves letting Soraka know he needed to change targets would have gotten her to do exactly that. Soraka letting Graves know there was assistance coming from the river and that he needed to follow her would have gotten him to do exactly that.

Both players, in the heat of the moment, likely expected the other to follow through with their own separate plans, and that's all. Bottom lane consists of TWO people that need to work together to accomplish anything. You can say both of them made mistakes (They did), but it's easy to armchair judge; when a game's going on and something like this happens, you make split second decisions.
#67End_of_DayPosted 11/9/2012 1:30:37 PM
UnderwaterAir posted...
The first wrong move was Graves' over-commitment to Fiddlesticks.

Look at all the minions coming to their tower and tell me why in the hell you would even try to move away from that exp and gold?
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First wrong move was Soraka moving out on her own with huge lane being pushed at her tower coming into that situation.

The minions were fine were they were. As Graves died you can see another wave of blues coming to hold the purples off way out of turret range. 0:44. This point is moot, as is the point that was built on it.

And consider the psychological thought process if that Graves had not initiated on Fiddlesticks. Fiddlesticks might have been perfectly happy to turn back and Ezreal + Fiddlesticks focus on Soraka wiping her out and then pulling back to safety of their tower while all Graves could do in that situation is continue auto attacking minions.

Consider the play that Graves should have actually made instead of wasting all of his cooldowns on a Fiddle that had already wasted his - killing Ezreal. You saw the puny amount of damage that Soraka took because Ezreal didn't follow up on it. If Ezreal DID try follow up, you should have already read what I stated before that Graves would have just killed him. Fiddlesticks had already wasted his cc at that point and Graves was free to engage Ezreal as he pleased - but he didn't. He engaged on the then-useless Fiddlesticks. That is mistake number one and if you aren't willing to accept it, then that will indeed be the limit to your argument. The only thing that Graves could have possibly stopped Fiddlesticks from doing from psychological intimidation was drain, and don't you think Soraka would have been just fine against support Fid drain? I'm going to reiterate one more time you're mistaken in defending Graves engaging on to Fiddlesticks in order to 'save' Soraka while the correct play clearly would have been to engage on Ezreal.

I am ignoring the rest of what you say because as I stated, the only thing we can even begin to analyze here is the first mistake.

the limitation of your argument.

And do note, from the minimap, they had no vision on mid nor enemy jungler either. Would be nice to get the replay so we know if Dragon was known to be missing or not.
consider Shen with ult up
It could very very quickly have turned into a 3v5 by dragon

These are good points but Skarner and Mordekaiser were already on their way and Orianna based. What it would have been if Hecarim and Shen came is a 4v4. But why are you visiting this hypothetical situation so comfortably while at the same time conveniently ignoring Graves' actual in-game failiure?
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#68angelsign2Posted 11/9/2012 2:09:41 PM
Isn't one of the great rules of solo queue to always focus the carries, yet the graves decides to focus the fiddlesticks despite ezreal being right next to him and graves also being so far ahead. I don't get why he would just ignore the ezreal to focus fiddle.
#69End_of_DayPosted 11/9/2012 2:20:52 PM
The point that UnderwaterAir was trying to make was that Graves was trying to help Soraka because she put herself in a bad position. My counterpoint is simply that she didn't need it because her position was fine. I think he was trying to counter in return by offering hypothetical situations in which she wouldn't have been fine, but I believe I've addressed that as well. I'm going to take a break now.
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My Hubris is bigger than yours.
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#70USFPosted 11/9/2012 2:36:26 PM
Definitely Soraka.
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