You've been playing Talon wrong

#11ssj98_gotenksPosted 11/29/2012 6:03:06 AM
Suffer_Not posted...
I can't even remember the last time I saw a Talon in game. Like, I see Karma more frequently than him.


I assume youre EST.

Thats hot.


And I agree.
#12iMillatimePosted 11/29/2012 6:45:40 AM
BurnumMaster posted...
So rather than building ad assassin build and hoping to get a kill, you instead build him to deal less damage and be less tanky than a tanky dps.


Duh. Same reason i build randuins, warmogs, frozen heart, FoN and banshee's on zed. Gotta stay alive man.

oh wait no I don't

TL:DR near bottom. I wrote way more than i expected LOL

You don't build champs like talon in inefficient ways to fill a role like that. You pick a champ that you can do that with. Talon has high ratios and, with his ult, a way to survive. You build him ad assassin because that's all he is worth.

He doesn't peel. You can try and peel with him, but he doesn't peel. He may peel noobs, but anyone in their right mind who realizes you do nothing to stop them will walk right past you. His kit does not keep your teammates safe, and you can't do enough damage to matter if you go tanky. Think of olaf. Why is he a tanky deeps? true damage and sustain. Think of irelia. true damage and sustain. Think of darius, true damage. Cho'gath. True damage and tons of cc. Jayce. % Damage, cc, long range poke.

Notice a trend there? Tanky deeps ARE tanky deeps not because of what you build on them, but because of how their kit works. They have some combination of poke, sustain, high base damage, true damage, cc, etc, and they also have survivability while still being a threat (as in being naturally tanky instead of relying on stealth to survive).

So, I go back to my statement "You don't build champs like talon in inefficient ways to fill a role like that." Talon's kit is nothing but damage. He has a slow and a single target silence, but that's it. No tankiness, no sustain, no high base damage/true damage/percent damage, no displacement, no long range poke, nothing like that. Building stuff like frozen heart or frozen mallet is bad on him, not because you HAVE TO OBEY THE META, but it's inefficient on him because doesn't USE it. He doesn't benefit from it nearly as much as stacking ad/armor pen and snagging a ga/qss. He relies on his ratios, and if you don't cater to that, you don't actually do anything.

This isn't a matter of me typing this out to say, "you're bad tc, follow the rules and build the right things", it's a matter of me trying to explain cost, slot, and build efficiency. Building him to take advantage of his kit is how you play Talon/any champ "right", not building him a certain way because you're afraid to die or something. talon's strength comes from crushing your lane, roaming, and ending the game early/strategically picking off people.

You may win with your build in your elo/vs your opponents, but you're gimping yourself. Just like building ad tf, there are pros and cons to it, but it's generally less efficient. AP trist. pros and cons, but it's generally less efficient. Building lots of ad on olaf, pros and cons, generally less efficient. etc. People have built talon the tanky deeps route, and it was inefficient. AD assassin is far from "wrong".

TL;DR: Don't pick your items to fill a role (unless you're someone like cho'gath), pick your champ to fill a role. Building items on a champ is always situational, but don't build them inneficiently every game so you can fill a role that a champ is flat out sub par at.

Building efficiently is based off mathematics and logic, not because you want to engage fights and are afraid to die. If that's how you're building and you lose, you lost at champ select.

One last thing, learn what it means to actually peel, protect and disrupt. Talon has burst, a single target interrupt, and a chase mechanic. He does not have peel, he does not have a way to protect, and he does not have a way to disrupt.
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It's Millatime
~What's wrong Mr. Bubbles?~
#13iMillatimePosted 11/29/2012 6:51:12 AM
build whatever you want, though. It's a game, not a prison.
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It's Millatime
~What's wrong Mr. Bubbles?~
#14MagiaIcePosted 11/29/2012 6:52:57 AM
Triforce is better on Talon for the sheen proc + Q + passive.
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"They can't backdoor when they're coming through the frontdoor..."~Me
Riven is my waifu.
#15iMillatimePosted 11/29/2012 6:59:17 AM
MagiaIce posted...
Triforce is better on Talon for the sheen proc + Q + passive.


It's also really expensive and building ad, which is cheaper, is just as effective on him because of his ratios. Triforce is a viable item on him, though. Usually, you want to jump in and clean up or burst someone after any big cc from the other team has been used up, so you probably don't want to spend much time actually auto attacking.

dive in, burst finishing with r using it to get out, then dive in again when you can. triforce doesn't allow this quite as much. sheen is good, but you already have a slow, and like i said, you probably don't want to auto attack much.
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It's Millatime
~What's wrong Mr. Bubbles?~
#16shadyelfPosted 11/29/2012 7:01:46 AM
From: iMillatime | #013
build whatever you want, though. It's a game, not a prison.



shh the metapolice might hear you
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#17MagiaIcePosted 11/29/2012 8:09:21 AM
From: iMillatime | #015
MagiaIce posted...
Triforce is better on Talon for the sheen proc + Q + passive.


It's also really expensive and building ad, which is cheaper, is just as effective on him because of his ratios. Triforce is a viable item on him, though. Usually, you want to jump in and clean up or burst someone after any big cc from the other team has been used up, so you probably don't want to spend much time actually auto attacking.

dive in, burst finishing with r using it to get out, then dive in again when you can. triforce doesn't allow this quite as much. sheen is good, but you already have a slow, and like i said, you probably don't want to auto attack much.

Well, including IE and BT. :p you'll be critting 800-900sish if you get that big of a build with LW as well.
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"They can't backdoor when they're coming through the frontdoor..."~Me
Riven is my waifu.