AP Nasus Guide: Or, How To Destroy The Meta And Have Fun Doing It

#161CovenantPosted 12/20/2012 12:29:45 PM
Diorte posted...
Uh, wtf game are you playing bro, Nasus' E at level 3 does **** to farm with the runes/masteries/items you've described.


He ignored this point when I brought it up. It is still really good for clearing waves quickly, but not to the extent that you can just drop it and leave like he claims.
#162SiblingzPosted 12/20/2012 1:03:26 PM
But can he beat cho?

I'm actually interested in this. Mid laners who ignore harass and snowball by not dying have become my favorite thing in this game
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#163SeaIntoTheSkyPosted 12/20/2012 1:27:38 PM
LOL! What a fun topic!! Don't worry I read all the posts. Here is a brief summery as I see it coming from a mid player:

Pros:
-Wither is a very strong tool that many seem to overlook

-Your spit fire cannot clear waves when you at char lvl 3 unless you spec VERY heavily into doing so. This isn't ideal at all. I can see a lvl 3 or 4 spit fire clearing waves, putting your character at lvl 7 or 9. At lvl 7 or 9 it is not uncommon for any mid champion to be able to clear waves effectively. I shall list as a pro since I feel it is a requirement to be able to clear waves quickly as a mid champion and will test it later.

-Strong armor shred is very strong right now, this does aid your team very nicely.

-Tank ability, very similar style to cho'gath no matter how you spin it they fulfill the same requirements on the team. This role is normally picked by other champions on your team but allows for a little more flexibility.

Cons:
-You are kited to infinitey. No matter what kind of Nasus you are this is a MAJOR problem. Also the nerf to shureylas and addition of Twin shadows and Kage's last breath for supports opens up even more problems.(While you do state that the ice gauntlets do help, and I am sure it does once you get close, it still doesn't remove the problem of getting to them first)

-Not enough utility. In a serious match up you may likely be facing one of the terrible trio Karthus, Anivia, Orianna. All three of these will zone you quickly, all three have better utility to peel for your AD which hinders you since they are so great at team fights and kiting(Range + so much utility slows/stuns). In essence you are lacking utility. Wither does not compare to what the others bring to the table.

-You are losing out on very strong team fighting capabilities in which you are the primary damage dealer on your team unless the ADC gets enough items. This is the main reason why burst APs are so often. It is your role to secure the objectives while your ADC grows. In competitive matches your turrets will go down much quicker and team fights will break out much sooner over objectives. You do not have the time to farm into a hyper carry(Only the ADC does, and having two on a team is NOT good)

-Your team has to pick roles that are dependant upon your champion. Although this one is a little up for debate. eg. your primary damage is still coming out as physical damage you will be lacking AP team damage. I'm assuming your damage is coming from Q still and not spit fire as it is not reliable damage.

I don't believe it is as bad as many of you think
-That being said there are many non competitive champions that you can make work. AP Yi is an example of this. I've made it work under certain pick situations(If you don't trust my word for it even Scarra has done it multiple times in his streams and succeeded). Being viable is not that same as tournament viable. And I can see AP Nasus as being a gimmick character like many others. You give up too much utility, presence and mid game damage to be 5 ranked viable.

I will test it and report when I can
-You made it very interesting and I will give it a go when I get home for fun. But I am 100% sure the points I made will still stand.^^
#164random_noobiePosted 12/20/2012 1:37:16 PM
am i too late to mention this isn't breaking the meta?
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#165TheConductorSix(Topic Creator)Posted 12/20/2012 2:38:39 PM
He ignored this point when I brought it up. It is still really good for clearing waves quickly, but not to the extent that you can just drop it and leave like he claims.

No, I answered it. You guys just read very poorly. Look at the talk I had with McBones. The Masteries/Runes I gave you guys are for beginners. I run Scaling AP Blues and Quints, and 21/0/9 masteries. This allows me to 100% clear.

For the Runes I set up, Level 3 Spirit Fire gets the creeps low enough to Q. Or, it lets you last hit the back line of creeps.



But can he beat cho?

I'm actually interested in this. Mid laners who ignore harass and snowball by not dying have become my favorite thing in this game


Nasus beats all melee. If you have to auto attack Nasus for damage then you have to be within his Ultimate and Spirit Fire Range. No one can beat Nasus inside these 2 things.

Also, you out scale Cho so just farm fest.
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#166TheConductorSix(Topic Creator)Posted 12/20/2012 2:42:46 PM
Pros:
-Wither is a very strong tool that many seem to overlook

-Your spit fire cannot clear waves when you at char lvl 3 unless you spec VERY heavily into doing so. This isn't ideal at all. I can see a lvl 3 or 4 spit fire clearing waves, putting your character at lvl 7 or 9. At lvl 7 or 9 it is not uncommon for any mid champion to be able to clear waves effectively. I shall list as a pro since I feel it is a requirement to be able to clear waves quickly as a mid champion and will test it later.

-Strong armor shred is very strong right now, this does aid your team very nicely.

-Tank ability, very similar style to cho'gath no matter how you spin it they fulfill the same requirements on the team. This role is normally picked by other champions on your team but allows for a little more flexibility.


-Wither is indeed Godlike. Best slow in the game. So good that it essentially counts as hard CC.

-I addressed this. You can clear at Level 3 of E if you spec into it, Level 4 if you don't. And Spirit Fire clears safer and quicker than any move in the game. He literally drops it and leaves. This allows for a ton of roaming potential and jungle farming.

-The reason Nasus went from Niche to Top Tier is because the way Penetration works now. More on this later.

-The difference between Cho and Nasus is that Nasus does sustained damage on the level of Karthus. Cho is one big burst. No tank can put out damage like Mundo.
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Realo won gold at the Sex Olympics with a BROKEN FRIGGIN NECK.-Voltch
#167TheConductorSix(Topic Creator)Posted 12/20/2012 2:52:57 PM
Cons:
-You are kited to infinitey. No matter what kind of Nasus you are this is a MAJOR problem. Also the nerf to shureylas and addition of Twin shadows and Kage's last breath for supports opens up even more problems.(While you do state that the ice gauntlets do help, and I am sure it does once you get close, it still doesn't remove the problem of getting to them first)


Cho'Gath and Amumu, the other AP Tanks, are kited to infinity as well. If they don't land their skill shots they can't get in. As we've seen, teams can EASILY build around this because Nasus frees up so many roles. More importantly, Nasus never needs to hard engage. Place Spirit Fire underneath turrets, clear entire creep wave, poke turret.

-Not enough utility. In a serious match up you may likely be facing one of the terrible trio Karthus, Anivia, Orianna. All three of these will zone you quickly, all three have better utility to peel for your AD which hinders you since they are so great at team fights and kiting(Range + so much utility slows/stuns). In essence you are lacking utility. Wither does not compare to what the others bring to the table.

I factor this into my build as you've seen. Rylais makes Spirit Fire an AOE slow and turns your Ultimate into a 15 second Lulu Ultimate. Frozen Fist makes your Q an AOE slow. And no one, I repeat no one, peels better than AP Nasus. He doesn't have to be an initiator. He serves a variety of roles on a team.


-You are losing out on very strong team fighting capabilities in which you are the primary damage dealer on your team unless the ADC gets enough items. This is the main reason why burst APs are so often. It is your role to secure the objectives while your ADC grows. In competitive matches your turrets will go down much quicker and team fights will break out much sooner over objectives. You do not have the time to farm into a hyper carry(Only the ADC does, and having two on a team is NOT good)

This is just wrong. This is an opinion coming from someone who has never seen the sustained damage that Nasus puts out. He does sustained damage like Karthus. AP Nasus is one of the best team fighting APs in the entire game. Also, Nasus plays like Karthus. He IS a hyper carry and gets farm in the same manner.

-Your team has to pick roles that are dependant upon your champion. Although this one is a little up for debate. eg. your primary damage is still coming out as physical damage you will be lacking AP team damage. I'm assuming your damage is coming from Q still and not spit fire as it is not reliable damage.

This, again, is wrong. Nasus frees up your team to pick whatever they want. If you want Burst you can pick an AD assassin. If you need more sustained damage you can pick Tryndamere in the jungle. If you want more bulk, you can put Amumu in the jungle. Nasus allows your team free reign over composition.

I don't believe it is as bad as many of you think
-That being said there are many non competitive champions that you can make work. AP Yi is an example of this. I've made it work under certain pick situations(If you don't trust my word for it even Scarra has done it multiple times in his streams and succeeded). Being viable is not that same as tournament viable. And I can see AP Nasus as being a gimmick character like many others. You give up too much utility, presence and mid game damage to be 5 ranked viable.


Alex Ich penta killed with AP Yi at the Worlds. A lot of champions are viable, we as Americans are just scared of new things which is why we simply copy what EU and Asia do. Then it trickles down to the casuals who preach it like the gospel.
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Realo won gold at the Sex Olympics with a BROKEN FRIGGIN NECK.-Voltch
#168SeaIntoTheSkyPosted 12/20/2012 2:56:28 PM
TheConductorSix posted...
Pros:
-Wither is a very strong tool that many seem to overlook

-Your spit fire cannot clear waves when you at char lvl 3 unless you spec VERY heavily into doing so. This isn't ideal at all. I can see a lvl 3 or 4 spit fire clearing waves, putting your character at lvl 7 or 9. At lvl 7 or 9 it is not uncommon for any mid champion to be able to clear waves effectively. I shall list as a pro since I feel it is a requirement to be able to clear waves quickly as a mid champion and will test it later.

-Strong armor shred is very strong right now, this does aid your team very nicely.

-Tank ability, very similar style to cho'gath no matter how you spin it they fulfill the same requirements on the team. This role is normally picked by other champions on your team but allows for a little more flexibility.


-Wither is indeed Godlike. Best slow in the game. So good that it essentially counts as hard CC.

-I addressed this. You can clear at Level 3 of E if you spec into it, Level 4 if you don't. And Spirit Fire clears safer and quicker than any move in the game. He literally drops it and leaves. This allows for a ton of roaming potential and jungle farming.

-The reason Nasus went from Niche to Top Tier is because the way Penetration works now. More on this later.

-The difference between Cho and Nasus is that Nasus does sustained damage on the level of Karthus. Cho is one big burst. No tank can put out damage like Mundo.


Sorry I just want to mention that although I provide points that Nasus is strong. I do not want people to get the wrong impressions. AP Nasus mid is a gimmick and nothing more. I am helping you in providing reasons why he is workable in a team, but he is by no means a "Godlike" champion as you suggest and will not break the meta or fit into competitive play for the reasons I have stated. Saying so it misinforming people, and that is going against what I want to do which is helping people.

That being said I enjoy your posts(Not just this topic) however out landish they may be, and also think that it may be a fun for people to try out. Just letting everyone note please take these topics with a grain of salt and use them in your free time for fun.
#169TheConductorSix(Topic Creator)Posted 12/20/2012 4:03:53 PM
I'm here to tell you that he is more than a gimmick. Season 2 AP Nasus was a gimmick; Season 3 AP Nasus is a legitimate threat.


I'll be playing AP Nasus all day today. BrandonFromLV. Feel free to spectate or wait for my LOLKing post later.
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Realo won gold at the Sex Olympics with a BROKEN FRIGGIN NECK.-Voltch
#170SirDanieIPosted 12/20/2012 4:10:44 PM
TheConductorSix posted...
I'm here to tell you that he is more than a gimmick. Season 2 AP Nasus was a gimmick; Season 3 AP Nasus is a legitimate threat.


I'll be playing AP Nasus all day today. BrandonFromLV. Feel free to spectate or wait for my LOLKing post later.


Lol; good luck with the queues :p
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