Is it me, or do AD casters counter every AP mid in existence?

#1bast999Posted 1/22/2013 12:57:13 PM
Pantheon, Talon, Kha'zix counter every single champ that is AP burst. They take nowhere near enough damage, have some form of CC, and you can't build armor because all you have is zhonya's and the 50 armor from that gets nullified by a rushed cleaver. Then they build LW/ghostblade on top of that and it's gg the entire mid game. Afterwards they grab OPmogs so they don't die lategame, along with a GA.

Meanwhile, you don't have any kills because your burst is weak because you were too busy feeding the damn AD casters.

Prove me wrong, there's gotta be a single burst mage that can kill these ****ers now that cleaver was nerfed.

Also, Garen/MF really take a mile with that new cleaver, MF just gets an IE and Garen a warmogs and then it's gg.
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#2iiTryhardPosted 1/22/2013 12:59:39 PM
Kha'Zix's only CC is removing your health bar in 2 hits
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#3war_in_a_pocketPosted 1/22/2013 1:03:24 PM
Although not a burst mage, Ryze does pretty well against AD casters, provided he has glacial shroud + some health and the AD caster is not stupidly fed.
#4SmishhhPosted 1/22/2013 1:11:50 PM(edited)
Yeah you're basically correct, but I don't think its really a secret. They have a lot of access to damage early on, both autos and skills doing significant damage. Squishy burst AP mids are going to have a bad time. You gotta pick someone like Cho.

With Bulwark available and armor stacking being not very useful you'll be a seeing a lot more teams where the only AP damage is supports who build damage late game due to the extra gold they have access to. In case they stack tons of armor only, Zyra or even Lulu could suddenly become quite deadly.
#5EDumeyPosted 1/22/2013 1:11:02 PM
I've had success in beating them early and then just not staying in lane against them.

For instance I beat a Talon as TF before he hit his level 6 stride. Then I was able to clear lane in a single combo and gank harder than he could. More map presence and just staying away from him in general gave me such a high advantage that even when he did find me, I could out trade him. (Out trade implying a survive his one-combo burst)

Basically win early and play the roaming game better. This is traditionally why AP mids became a standard, because they scale off of levels best and can make a lot of mid game plays. They are still better at it than AD mids.
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#6Rising ChaosPosted 1/22/2013 1:13:58 PM
war_in_a_pocket posted...
Although not a burst mage, Ryze does pretty well against AD casters, provided he has glacial shroud + some health and the AD caster is not stupidly fed.

And Morg, Malz, Kennen, Swain... Does Elise count?
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#7Rookie_JetPosted 1/22/2013 1:16:10 PM
I think Fizz can still do pretty well against them. Also, I don't see Cass too much, but with her range, I bet she can do decently as well. For that matter, Karthus might still be ok too. At least if Karthus dies, there is at least still a good chance he will take them down with him since they'll all be in his defile.

You can always try AP Sivir mid and utilize dat spell shield :-P
#8noone369Posted 1/22/2013 1:17:10 PM
Also, Vladimir. Haven't had problems against AD casters as Cho.
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#9B01tPosted 1/22/2013 2:27:13 PM
So yeah, TC, as people have pointed out, it's only some, not all of the ap mids that get countered. And as always, a large part of it is skill, such as with cass and fizz.

Cass is so squishy, perfect for ad casters, BUT she can outrange and poke them down starting from level 1, which is a big point in her favor
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#10AirsoftcomebackPosted 1/22/2013 2:36:37 PM
please for the love of god do not listen to these people and take cass mid against an AD caster.

please please please
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