I finally understand why Karma isn't played

#1FlameLord23Posted 1/26/2013 11:26:39 PM
Mantra really screws her up. It's so stupid. You cannot heal effectively in clutch situations.

This is a good reason why we can't have dual resource champions. Olaf works because it balances the E. But Karma is essentially a dual resource champion that will not be able to use 3 of her enhanced abilities in a team fight.
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#2thecrossnkightPosted 1/26/2013 11:30:10 PM
Its more that she literally has a single consistent damage move. If W was feasibly hittable with. or they swapped the damage/shield on her E, she might be more effective since she can lay hurt on in teamfights more effectively, but as is she's a bursty champ with stupidly conditional burst on high CD that in doing so prevents her from supporting.
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#3FlameLord23(Topic Creator)Posted 1/27/2013 1:48:27 PM
If they made her heal the first option on Karma and the damage the second option, how would that affect her?
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#4g-cube_mastaPosted 1/27/2013 1:50:14 PM
From: FlameLord23 | #001
Olaf works because it balances the E

lol
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#5silent_loudPosted 1/27/2013 11:34:32 PM
What they need to do is give all of her abilities the mantra form but to a lesser degree. So Q will now only heal a base amount instead of % life, E will have a slightly higher base to compensate, and E will always have an aoe burst but on a smaller scale. What they should do instead is make it so that you'd want to mantra something and have that ability be GOOD!

The current problem with her mantra abilities are that when they are not mantra'ed they are really sub par. A short range Q that deals okay damage but forces her to be so CLOSE! W's bases are really low, even when mantra'ed they are not that high until rank 5. Her shield has a really good base with good ap ratio but it's just a shield, nothing more (if you wanted a champion who can shield, why not pick janna or lulu who are better at it since their shields apply something else too!)

FINALLY, her biggest issue is a lack of a "game changing" ult! Almost every viable AP/Utility/Support champion has that powerful ultimate that can either save a team member or completely turn a team fight into your favor. Look at Janna, Sona, Soraka, Leona, Zilean, Orianna, Morg, Lux, all of their ultimates have such great team fight potential! Added on top of that her lack of any hard CC and you have a champion that just isn't given enough to compensate despite her strong solo laning.
#6AlmightyHamSandwichPosted 1/27/2013 11:43:49 PM
She needs 3 Mantra Charges - 2 for normal use, 1 for what could be considered emergencies.

Most of her problems would be solved.
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#7EnclosurePosted 1/27/2013 11:44:46 PM
Karma doesn't work as a support not because of her mantra, but simply because her kit is meant to work with a tank, not an ADC.

Her Q heal is % based rather than flat, so it benefits tanks more than a squishy ADC.
Her W speed modifier is better with a tank who goes in first, so the whole group can get hit by it and maybe most of the enemies too, if the tank moves straight for the back lines.
Her E shield is good for anyone, but the mantra PBAoE is better for someone in the thick of things. Again, the tank.
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#8mistrfantasyPosted 1/28/2013 12:01:04 AM
karma is a melee support, which is not meta. All her abilities are more effective on a melee bruiser/dps then ranged adc. If one day we start seeing bruisers go dual lane bot, karma would be an excellent option.
#9magnusblitzPosted 1/28/2013 12:17:00 AM
Yeah, Karma basically suffers both from not fitting the meta and just QOL problems:

1) As Enclosure points out, she's got support abilities, but they work better with tanky initiators rather than ranged AD carries (where the support goes). A %-based heal, and her W and E work best on allies in the thick of it, so they can hit other enemies.

2) She's this weird sort of hybrid between AP mage and support, needing her mantras to fully do both. She can do damage with Q but needs a mantra to heal. She can shield with E but needs a mantra to do damage. And likewise, her utility as a support is pretty much limited to a movespeed spell - she needs farm, but you can only get that in a solo lane in this meta.

3) In the "conditional" vein, her W (most damaging skill until you get 250+ AP) only does damage if you can hit someone with the tether part. This is doable in large teamfights but early on can be quite difficult (and impossible in a solo lane unless there's a gank).

4) She feels somewhat two-note, with only her Q and E being useful all the time. W is too conditional and she has no ult (obviously). Other characters without true ults (Nidalee, Jayce, Udyr) get access to additional skills; Karma just gets additional effects.

Riot's apparently looking at her, so we'll see what they've come up. Most of their other reworks recently have turned out pretty well (Kat, Garen, Eve off the top of my head).
#10EnclosurePosted 1/28/2013 12:19:49 AM
Udyr doesn't get a true ult either, but he does get one extra skill rather than 3.
He's not terrible, but neither is he in a good place right now.
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