If I'm really good at last-hitting, is Avarice Blade worth it on my ADCs?

#11Suffer_NotPosted 1/31/2013 9:21:42 AM
There is a lot of back and forth on the Shiv versus PD argument. Phantom dancer is more gold efficient and gives more attack speed and crit chance in exchange for less movement speed and a non-offensive passive. In general people seem to agree that Shiv is best on champions that kite a lot since the increased movement will proc Shiv charges more quickly than increased auto attacks will. I personally don't buy it much, but that could just be my relative inexperience with AD Carry in season 3; I tend to fall back on my season 2 item choices more.


Concerning getting Rice Blade early...
Grabbing an early gold/10 item is an investment. When you buy that item you say "I am willing to hope that the gold this money makes me is worth the gold that I lose by buying it". Rice blade gives +10% crit chance, which is 'worth' 500 gold in item stats. So you lose 300 gold in item stats by buying it, essentially putting the enemy champion a kill ahead of you.

Furthermore, crit chance is not very helpful in lane. If one person buys a Rice Blade an the other person buys a Vamp Scepter, one guy has a 10% chance to do a lot of damage while the other guy has a 90% chance to do more damage than you and the ability to life steal and sustain himself throughout the lane. It gives him a significant advantage, and if he is good he is going to zone you out from creep kills and experience which will give him more of a gold lead than you would earn through Shiv.

To put it in Dota terms, there are very few times that your first major purchase is going to be Eaglesong on a carry. Generally you buy a smaller tier item that will help you during the laning phase, even if it gets replaced later. Like a Battlefury or whatever, depending on the hero. While it does make a certain sort of sense from an economic standpoint to not 'waste the gold' on small items that you are going to replace when you could just buy big stuff, in practice the guy who bought the stuff that gives him lane advantage will win because he can bully you around and make up the gold difference in cs or even kills.

Regardless of whether or not you plan on buying Shiv or PD, I would not get Rice Blade in lane. Work towards a Vamp Scepter and a BF Sword, because having more damage in lane is going to give you lane dominance which turns into a cs lead or experience lead or kill lead. In general the only champs I would rush a gp/10 on are supports (and they really ought to get sightstone first) or a roaming mid (and they probably have a core item they need in order to roam, like tier 2 boots).
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#12JackDaniels1964Posted 1/31/2013 9:31:32 AM
Suffer_Not posted...
There is a lot of back and forth on the Shiv versus PD argument. Phantom dancer is more gold efficient and gives more attack speed and crit chance in exchange for less movement speed and a non-offensive passive. In general people seem to agree that Shiv is best on champions that kite a lot since the increased movement will proc Shiv charges more quickly than increased auto attacks will. I personally don't buy it much, but that could just be my relative inexperience with AD Carry in season 3; I tend to fall back on my season 2 item choices more.


Concerning getting Rice Blade early...
Grabbing an early gold/10 item is an investment. When you buy that item you say "I am willing to hope that the gold this money makes me is worth the gold that I lose by buying it". Rice blade gives +10% crit chance, which is 'worth' 500 gold in item stats. So you lose 300 gold in item stats by buying it, essentially putting the enemy champion a kill ahead of you.

Furthermore, crit chance is not very helpful in lane. If one person buys a Rice Blade an the other person buys a Vamp Scepter, one guy has a 10% chance to do a lot of damage while the other guy has a 90% chance to do more damage than you and the ability to life steal and sustain himself throughout the lane. It gives him a significant advantage, and if he is good he is going to zone you out from creep kills and experience which will give him more of a gold lead than you would earn through Shiv.

To put it in Dota terms, there are very few times that your first major purchase is going to be Eaglesong on a carry. Generally you buy a smaller tier item that will help you during the laning phase, even if it gets replaced later. Like a Battlefury or whatever, depending on the hero. While it does make a certain sort of sense from an economic standpoint to not 'waste the gold' on small items that you are going to replace when you could just buy big stuff, in practice the guy who bought the stuff that gives him lane advantage will win because he can bully you around and make up the gold difference in cs or even kills.

Regardless of whether or not you plan on buying Shiv or PD, I would not get Rice Blade in lane. Work towards a Vamp Scepter and a BF Sword, because having more damage in lane is going to give you lane dominance which turns into a cs lead or experience lead or kill lead. In general the only champs I would rush a gp/10 on are supports (and they really ought to get sightstone first) or a roaming mid (and they probably have a core item they need in order to roam, like tier 2 boots).


TL:DR but im gonna assume shiv isnt that bad
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#13xMikhalxPosted 1/31/2013 9:37:37 AM
I'd actually read it, since he's actually very detailed and you can ignore everyone elses' posts after reading it.

TL;DR Riceblade in lane isn't very effective; statikk shiv vs PD is highly dependent on preference.
#14Suffer_NotPosted 1/31/2013 9:37:49 AM
JackDaniels1964 posted...
TL:DR but im gonna assume shiv isnt that bad


If you're not going to read my post then it may not be advisable to make assumptions about it >__>
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I'm actually incredibly overly passionate and...whats the word...viscous? - EltoniaX
#15Walker_RealPosted 1/31/2013 9:39:56 AM
The real problem with Avarice is that the time when you need it doesn't make any sense.

You really need a BT right off the bat with most carries, if not a sword and scepter then make IE instead.

You really need to have that movespeed and attack speed ASAP after you get that first. So some people would say "Keep zeal and avarice", but you really need that upgrade shortly after you have both, thus not maximizing the gold gain from the blade.

I try to use BT & Avarice blade in conjunction so I feel like I'm getting double benefits from my creep kills.

Also, Lower tier games = Phantom dancer. Surprise scrubs and burn them down.

Higher tier games = Shiv. You're high damage and chain should be used as a poke. Characters like Draven or MF can bust a quick cap and deal some poke chain.. In a team dance (when 5v5 are running around slightly out of each other's zones waiting to engage at the right time) your poke damage pulled by this could very well be make or break. Sometimes I've pulled 2 chain lightnings on stragglers that changed the outcome of the fight by hitting a tank or frontman who chained it to get necessary damage off on support/ad
#16thecrossnkightPosted 1/31/2013 10:21:25 AM
You can do what I do and use vamp quints + 11 in utility for 9% starting lifesteal. Rush avarice, then build IE.

Proceed to outsustain, outdps, and outfarm the foolish enemy ADC that thinks 6AD is more important than getting 9+ life per auto attack.
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#17KlobziPosted 1/31/2013 10:24:05 AM
I've been getting them both....

What have I done?