you can now deny Towers

#31HyperDragonPosted 2/2/2013 4:44:21 PM
leet_x1337 posted...

Then again, since denying will probably never be added to the game at all, you guys probably shouldn't be worrying about it.


Jokes on you, LoL had full denying in it for awhile in the very earliest stages of beta and Gangplank used to have the only deny ability.

(which I dearly miss, denyplank was so fun)
#32SexualPizzaPosted 2/2/2013 5:11:32 PM
The Last Cetra posted...
SexualPizza posted...
IIRC, you get 150 gold for the team for destroying a tower. Hardly seems worth it if denial were in place.

Plus, denying is a stupid mechanic anyway.


Yeah, totally not worth it. The same way killing the dragon for a 190 gold bonus to your entire team is not relevant or important in any way.


Lol. Comparing dragon bonus to a tower bonus. Last I checked you didn't need to kill dragon in order to get to the Nexus.

Yes, let's just destroy our towers for a small gold bonus and give the enemy an easier time. While we're at it, why don't we just kill all of our creeps as well so the enemy wave can just faceroll everything? How about we also make it to where you can just kill your own teammates, or even yourself, to "deny" the enemy gold?

Stupid.

ITT: Buttmad DOTA2 players
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#33CovenantPosted 2/2/2013 5:14:50 PM
funkyfritter posted...
Tower denial encourages the attacking team to keep up the pressure as the tower gets low so it can't be denied. That tends to put more focus on objectives and rewards coordination from both sides.


It doesn't reward coordination so much as it punishes a lack of coordination, compared to the system now. A team lacking coordination is already punished quite heavily in this game, so I don't see any need for this mechanic.

And no, it doesn't put more focus on objectives. It puts more focus on creating an overwhelming advantage that will allow you to ensure that you will actually get the kill on the tower instead of it getting denied. This advantage would primarily be gained by killing players. It would limit early pushing, a relatively new strategy developing in professional play, and would put more focus on killing people. That's fine for dota, but League is a different game.

Lastly, the game used to be like this. You used to have sustained pushes that kept pressure on. Riot nerfed the parts of the game that enabled this because they didn't like the degree to which it influenced team comp and limited options for counterplay and comebacks.


HyperDragon posted...
Tower denying increases the reward for skilled play by allowing people who are really good at actually doing the objective of the game to take the enemies towers to try to prevent them from denying them, instead of backing to base to get items.


It moves the requirement for the reward up. It gives a safety net to the losers so that if they just manage to not lose really hard, they can avoid being punished as much for it. It moves the skill floor up for the defenders and down for people on the offense. It makes effective offense harder.


This idea would speed the game up because your team won't AFK farm jungle or back to base after every team fight in order to get their gold.


This idea actually discourages pushing after anything but an ace. If enemies are around, they can minimize your rewards. If you win the fight but aren't strong enough to drive them away from their tower, then the expected gain for pushing a tower is reduced due to the chance that you will get denied.
#34Try_Harder_NubzPosted 2/2/2013 5:19:51 PM
From: Covenant | #033
funkyfritter posted...
Tower denial encourages the attacking team to keep up the pressure as the tower gets low so it can't be denied. That tends to put more focus on objectives and rewards coordination from both sides.


It doesn't reward coordination so much as it punishes a lack of coordination, compared to the system now. A team lacking coordination is already punished quite heavily in this game, so I don't see any need for this mechanic.

And no, it doesn't put more focus on objectives. It puts more focus on creating an overwhelming advantage that will allow you to ensure that you will actually get the kill on the tower instead of it getting denied. This advantage would primarily be gained by killing players. It would limit early pushing, a relatively new strategy developing in professional play, and would put more focus on killing people. That's fine for dota, but League is a different game.

Lastly, the game used to be like this. You used to have sustained pushes that kept pressure on. Riot nerfed the parts of the game that enabled this because they didn't like the degree to which it influenced team comp and limited options for counterplay and comebacks.


HyperDragon posted...
Tower denying increases the reward for skilled play by allowing people who are really good at actually doing the objective of the game to take the enemies towers to try to prevent them from denying them, instead of backing to base to get items.


It moves the requirement for the reward up. It gives a safety net to the losers so that if they just manage to not lose really hard, they can avoid being punished as much for it. It moves the skill floor up for the defenders and down for people on the offense. It makes effective offense harder.


This idea would speed the game up because your team won't AFK farm jungle or back to base after every team fight in order to get their gold.


This idea actually discourages pushing after anything but an ace. If enemies are around, they can minimize your rewards. If you win the fight but aren't strong enough to drive them away from their tower, then the expected gain for pushing a tower is reduced due to the chance that you will get denied.


lol
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#35SolKarellenPosted 2/2/2013 5:29:12 PM
SexualPizza posted...
The Last Cetra posted...
SexualPizza posted...
IIRC, you get 150 gold for the team for destroying a tower. Hardly seems worth it if denial were in place.

Plus, denying is a stupid mechanic anyway.


Yeah, totally not worth it. The same way killing the dragon for a 190 gold bonus to your entire team is not relevant or important in any way.


Lol. Comparing dragon bonus to a tower bonus. Last I checked you didn't need to kill dragon in order to get to the Nexus.

Yes, let's just destroy our towers for a small gold bonus and give the enemy an easier time. While we're at it, why don't we just kill all of our creeps as well so the enemy wave can just faceroll everything? How about we also make it to where you can just kill your own teammates, or even yourself, to "deny" the enemy gold?

Stupid.

ITT: Buttmad DOTA2 players


I wonder if he's aware that you CAN deny teammates and Pudge can kill himself for a gold deny...
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#36CateraiPosted 2/2/2013 5:41:08 PM
Probably the funniest topic I've read in a while. Denying being a stupid mechanic? I'd call troll but I'm pretty sure some of you are serious.
#37SexualPizzaPosted 2/2/2013 5:47:20 PM
SolKarellen posted...
SexualPizza posted...
The Last Cetra posted...
SexualPizza posted...
IIRC, you get 150 gold for the team for destroying a tower. Hardly seems worth it if denial were in place.

Plus, denying is a stupid mechanic anyway.


Yeah, totally not worth it. The same way killing the dragon for a 190 gold bonus to your entire team is not relevant or important in any way.


Lol. Comparing dragon bonus to a tower bonus. Last I checked you didn't need to kill dragon in order to get to the Nexus.

Yes, let's just destroy our towers for a small gold bonus and give the enemy an easier time. While we're at it, why don't we just kill all of our creeps as well so the enemy wave can just faceroll everything? How about we also make it to where you can just kill your own teammates, or even yourself, to "deny" the enemy gold?

Stupid.

ITT: Buttmad DOTA2 players


I wonder if he's aware that you CAN deny teammates and Pudge can kill himself for a gold deny...


Nope. Wasn't aware, and doesn't surprise me. Still stupid. Might as well just deny the Nexus. Or better yet, just deny denies entirely so the game can actually make sense.
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#38SolKarellenPosted 2/2/2013 5:54:09 PM
SexualPizza posted...
SolKarellen posted...
SexualPizza posted...
The Last Cetra posted...
SexualPizza posted...
IIRC, you get 150 gold for the team for destroying a tower. Hardly seems worth it if denial were in place.

Plus, denying is a stupid mechanic anyway.


Yeah, totally not worth it. The same way killing the dragon for a 190 gold bonus to your entire team is not relevant or important in any way.


Lol. Comparing dragon bonus to a tower bonus. Last I checked you didn't need to kill dragon in order to get to the Nexus.

Yes, let's just destroy our towers for a small gold bonus and give the enemy an easier time. While we're at it, why don't we just kill all of our creeps as well so the enemy wave can just faceroll everything? How about we also make it to where you can just kill your own teammates, or even yourself, to "deny" the enemy gold?

Stupid.

ITT: Buttmad DOTA2 players


I wonder if he's aware that you CAN deny teammates and Pudge can kill himself for a gold deny...


Nope. Wasn't aware, and doesn't surprise me. Still stupid. Might as well just deny the Nexus. Or better yet, just deny denies entirely so the game can actually make sense.


The Ancient cannot be denied.

You can technically deny a deny by denying a creep a teammate was about to deny.
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#39PrizmSlashPosted 2/2/2013 6:10:22 PM(edited)
Caterai posted...
Probably the funniest topic I've read in a while. Denying being a stupid mechanic? I'd call troll but I'm pretty sure some of you are serious.


Oh dude believe me they are serious.
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#40ssupermario92(Topic Creator)Posted 2/2/2013 6:09:42 PM
SexualPizza posted...
IIRC, you get 150 gold for the team for destroying a tower. Hardly seems worth it if denial were in place.

Plus, denying is a stupid mechanic anyway.


http://i.imgur.com/U9XSQ.gif
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