how is the scale and snowballing in LOL compared to Dota?

#31shrimp1992Posted 2/7/2013 4:59:17 PM
aibohphobia posted...
league snowballs harder

while dota seems far more unforgiving because of more obvious short-term punishments like gold loss and spell scaling by level being stronger, it is harder to recover in league when you're behind due to the way gold efficiency works in relation to the way the game plays.

items in league get more gold:stat efficient as you complete higher tier items. for example, in league a longsword gives 10 ad for 400g, or 40g per point of ad; a BFsword gives 45 ad for 1550g, or 34.4g per ad. this pure stat advantage is further compounded with completed items having additional effects.
compared to dota, where items are actually less gold efficient for larger components [ex. iron branch (53g): 53g/+1 stats vs ultimate orb(2100g): 210g/+1 stats] also means mid-game items are even stronger in relation of playing on the back foot since you are not as far behind in stats.

furthermore, in league kills are usually more drawn out due to most spells having low bases (because of spell scaling) along with the generally low amount of lockdown in this game. this is even more noticeable with the popular choice to snowball into defensive items making kill-times even more prolonged (offensive items usually even have defensive stats included in them). this usually makes for more attrition-based fighting where the stat advantages (due to the gold-efficiency snowballing) start to become more and more pronounced in extended fights.

the best way to fight against an enemy who not only has an advantage in exp/levels, but also in items, is to lock down their movements and pick them off safely. in other words, ganks and/or coordinated teamplay. but with league's lower amount of cc (maybe due to that anti-fun philosophy, who knows) this making surviving against a fed enemy harder, sometimes even if you execute chaining cc perfectly.
summoner spells have significant downtime, making them limited in usefulness when the stronger enemy just challenges an objective again. there are more item actives in S3, but most of them are steroids, which isn't lockdown, or movespeed buffs/slows which helps in engaging/disengaging but not with the fed enemy mf manfighting you into fleeing/death when contesting dragon.

in dota, counterplay is purchasable and lockdown is more impactful

You are wrong. I've seen dota someone have fifty kills and straight 1v5. You are simply wrong.
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#32VeeVeesPosted 2/7/2013 5:06:39 PM
assuming you are a normal gamer who mostly soloqueue, they are both the same. it's always either you stomp or they stomp. i've played couple thousand games in the 2 games and probably less than 50 games were somewhat even.
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#33Evil_Evil_Evil_Posted 2/7/2013 5:21:04 PM
shrimp1992 posted...
You are wrong. I've seen dota someone have fifty kills and straight 1v5. You are simply wrong.


yea, you were watching me, right?
#34MezmorizorPosted 2/7/2013 6:00:19 PM(edited)
From: shrimp1992 | #031
aibohphobia posted...
league snowballs harder

while dota seems far more unforgiving because of more obvious short-term punishments like gold loss and spell scaling by level being stronger, it is harder to recover in league when you're behind due to the way gold efficiency works in relation to the way the game plays.

items in league get more gold:stat efficient as you complete higher tier items. for example, in league a longsword gives 10 ad for 400g, or 40g per point of ad; a BFsword gives 45 ad for 1550g, or 34.4g per ad. this pure stat advantage is further compounded with completed items having additional effects.
compared to dota, where items are actually less gold efficient for larger components [ex. iron branch (53g): 53g/+1 stats vs ultimate orb(2100g): 210g/+1 stats] also means mid-game items are even stronger in relation of playing on the back foot since you are not as far behind in stats.

furthermore, in league kills are usually more drawn out due to most spells having low bases (because of spell scaling) along with the generally low amount of lockdown in this game. this is even more noticeable with the popular choice to snowball into defensive items making kill-times even more prolonged (offensive items usually even have defensive stats included in them). this usually makes for more attrition-based fighting where the stat advantages (due to the gold-efficiency snowballing) start to become more and more pronounced in extended fights.

the best way to fight against an enemy who not only has an advantage in exp/levels, but also in items, is to lock down their movements and pick them off safely. in other words, ganks and/or coordinated teamplay. but with league's lower amount of cc (maybe due to that anti-fun philosophy, who knows) this making surviving against a fed enemy harder, sometimes even if you execute chaining cc perfectly.
summoner spells have significant downtime, making them limited in usefulness when the stronger enemy just challenges an objective again. there are more item actives in S3, but most of them are steroids, which isn't lockdown, or movespeed buffs/slows which helps in engaging/disengaging but not with the fed enemy mf manfighting you into fleeing/death when contesting dragon.

in dota, counterplay is purchasable and lockdown is more impactful

You are wrong. I've seen dota someone have fifty kills and straight 1v5. You are simply wrong.

No, he's not. A 10% gold advantage goes a hell of a lot farther in League than it does in Dota. In LoL that's gg worthy, but in dota you could actually be ahead depending on your team's carry potential.
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#35JellicPosted 2/7/2013 5:31:37 PM
MusashiExtra posted...
From: MizunoRyuu | #022
One of the major advantages LoL has over DotA is just that, people don't scale out of control here. Oh, you have a 2 item advantage? I'll just get my ally and 2v1 you into the ground. If the same thing happens in DotA, even a 5v1 isn't enough to stop the snowballing. And gold loss on death is a horrible idea.

What if it's 5vs5 'cause the other team isn't filled with idiots? Spells are far more significant in Dota, which means good play from one team, even if they're far behind, can easily wipe the winning team. In LoL, you counter with numbers. In DotA, you counter with plays.


This, literally just got out of a game we were 7 to 27 hard shut down on top forcing them to safety farm and the scaling with levels even made that harder but with defending good smoke ganks and good anti push and all around amazing team fight from our losing team the game got turned around into a win
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#36EvilMewtwoPosted 2/7/2013 5:49:51 PM
aibohphobia posted...
league snowballs harder

while dota seems far more unforgiving because of more obvious short-term punishments like gold loss and spell scaling by level being stronger, it is harder to recover in league when you're behind due to the way gold efficiency works in relation to the way the game plays.

items in league get more gold:stat efficient as you complete higher tier items. for example, in league a longsword gives 10 ad for 400g, or 40g per point of ad; a BFsword gives 45 ad for 1550g, or 34.4g per ad. this pure stat advantage is further compounded with completed items having additional effects.
compared to dota, where items are actually less gold efficient for larger components [ex. iron branch (53g): 53g/+1 stats vs ultimate orb(2100g): 210g/+1 stats] also means mid-game items are even stronger in relation of playing on the back foot since you are not as far behind in stats.

furthermore, in league kills are usually more drawn out due to most spells having low bases (because of spell scaling) along with the generally low amount of lockdown in this game. this is even more noticeable with the popular choice to snowball into defensive items making kill-times even more prolonged (offensive items usually even have defensive stats included in them). this usually makes for more attrition-based fighting where the stat advantages (due to the gold-efficiency snowballing) start to become more and more pronounced in extended fights.

the best way to fight against an enemy who not only has an advantage in exp/levels, but also in items, is to lock down their movements and pick them off safely. in other words, ganks and/or coordinated teamplay. but with league's lower amount of cc (maybe due to that anti-fun philosophy, who knows) this making surviving against a fed enemy harder, sometimes even if you execute chaining cc perfectly.
summoner spells have significant downtime, making them limited in usefulness when the stronger enemy just challenges an objective again. there are more item actives in S3, but most of them are steroids, which isn't lockdown, or movespeed buffs/slows which helps in engaging/disengaging but not with the fed enemy mf manfighting you into fleeing/death when contesting dragon.

in dota, counterplay is purchasable and lockdown is more impactful


this is entirely correct.

he's also backed up by statistics; someone on reddit analyzed it. more comebacks are made in dota (comeback being defined as the team behind in gold at 10 minutes ending up with a win) than in league.
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#37angermngment101Posted 2/7/2013 5:54:40 PM
12 karma

You know what kind of a person this is.
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Gamefax
#38TakaRai7Posted 2/7/2013 7:08:12 PM
I've always seen it as coin flips in league you only get one, make a mistake and you can ride it to victory. In DotA its more like 3, can still snowball just a few more chances to turn it around.
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#39UltraCookiePosted 2/7/2013 10:36:58 PM
shrimp1992 posted...
aibohphobia posted...
league snowballs harder

while dota seems far more unforgiving because of more obvious short-term punishments like gold loss and spell scaling by level being stronger, it is harder to recover in league when you're behind due to the way gold efficiency works in relation to the way the game plays.

items in league get more gold:stat efficient as you complete higher tier items. for example, in league a longsword gives 10 ad for 400g, or 40g per point of ad; a BFsword gives 45 ad for 1550g, or 34.4g per ad. this pure stat advantage is further compounded with completed items having additional effects.
compared to dota, where items are actually less gold efficient for larger components [ex. iron branch (53g): 53g/+1 stats vs ultimate orb(2100g): 210g/+1 stats] also means mid-game items are even stronger in relation of playing on the back foot since you are not as far behind in stats.

furthermore, in league kills are usually more drawn out due to most spells having low bases (because of spell scaling) along with the generally low amount of lockdown in this game. this is even more noticeable with the popular choice to snowball into defensive items making kill-times even more prolonged (offensive items usually even have defensive stats included in them). this usually makes for more attrition-based fighting where the stat advantages (due to the gold-efficiency snowballing) start to become more and more pronounced in extended fights.

the best way to fight against an enemy who not only has an advantage in exp/levels, but also in items, is to lock down their movements and pick them off safely. in other words, ganks and/or coordinated teamplay. but with league's lower amount of cc (maybe due to that anti-fun philosophy, who knows) this making surviving against a fed enemy harder, sometimes even if you execute chaining cc perfectly.
summoner spells have significant downtime, making them limited in usefulness when the stronger enemy just challenges an objective again. there are more item actives in S3, but most of them are steroids, which isn't lockdown, or movespeed buffs/slows which helps in engaging/disengaging but not with the fed enemy mf manfighting you into fleeing/death when contesting dragon.

in dota, counterplay is purchasable and lockdown is more impactful

You are wrong. I've seen dota someone have fifty kills and straight 1v5. You are simply wrong.


Firstly, 50 kills is incredibly uncommon. 20+ kills isn't even an amazing often occurrence let alone more than double that. Most peoples records are in the 30s.

Secondly, just because it's possible to snowball doesn't mean it's easy to snowball. If you're letting the enemies carry get to the point where he can 1v5 you then you've simply made some mistakes that game.
#40UltraCookiePosted 2/7/2013 10:37:22 PM
EvilMewtwo posted...
aibohphobia posted...
league snowballs harder

while dota seems far more unforgiving because of more obvious short-term punishments like gold loss and spell scaling by level being stronger, it is harder to recover in league when you're behind due to the way gold efficiency works in relation to the way the game plays.

items in league get more gold:stat efficient as you complete higher tier items. for example, in league a longsword gives 10 ad for 400g, or 40g per point of ad; a BFsword gives 45 ad for 1550g, or 34.4g per ad. this pure stat advantage is further compounded with completed items having additional effects.
compared to dota, where items are actually less gold efficient for larger components [ex. iron branch (53g): 53g/+1 stats vs ultimate orb(2100g): 210g/+1 stats] also means mid-game items are even stronger in relation of playing on the back foot since you are not as far behind in stats.

furthermore, in league kills are usually more drawn out due to most spells having low bases (because of spell scaling) along with the generally low amount of lockdown in this game. this is even more noticeable with the popular choice to snowball into defensive items making kill-times even more prolonged (offensive items usually even have defensive stats included in them). this usually makes for more attrition-based fighting where the stat advantages (due to the gold-efficiency snowballing) start to become more and more pronounced in extended fights.

the best way to fight against an enemy who not only has an advantage in exp/levels, but also in items, is to lock down their movements and pick them off safely. in other words, ganks and/or coordinated teamplay. but with league's lower amount of cc (maybe due to that anti-fun philosophy, who knows) this making surviving against a fed enemy harder, sometimes even if you execute chaining cc perfectly.
summoner spells have significant downtime, making them limited in usefulness when the stronger enemy just challenges an objective again. there are more item actives in S3, but most of them are steroids, which isn't lockdown, or movespeed buffs/slows which helps in engaging/disengaging but not with the fed enemy mf manfighting you into fleeing/death when contesting dragon.

in dota, counterplay is purchasable and lockdown is more impactful


this is entirely correct.

he's also backed up by statistics; someone on reddit analyzed it. more comebacks are made in dota (comeback being defined as the team behind in gold at 10 minutes ending up with a win) than in league.


Link?