Help: explain bot lane dynamics

#1Dark_DcPosted 2/5/2013 10:47:40 AM
I lose like 90% of the time I go bot, but win just about the opposite in all other lanes/jungle.

In ranked whenever I get forced bot (despite my warnings) we lose. Like no joke.

It frustrates me to no end, so can someone give some explanation to WHAT I should be doing bot lane as ADC Draven or support Thresh/Lulu/Leona

ty for any help
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#2FvPPosted 2/5/2013 10:50:08 AM
Be aggressive with Draven / Lulu / Leona
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#3TomorrowDogPosted 2/5/2013 10:56:45 AM
Eh... best short note of advice I'd give is make sure you're focusing right with your partner.

Otherwise it is just understanding what all of the champions and combinations are capable of and knowing when you or the enemy can initiate and when initiates can backfire. Just gotta practice.
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#4SexualPizzaPosted 2/5/2013 11:00:41 AM
If you're ADC, you need to focus on getting your last hits and farming. Just don't push the minion wave too far. This will allow the jungler to gank and possibly get the enemy bot lane carry killed, allowing you to farm more safely.

If you're support, you need to protect the adc at all costs; and ward, ward, ward. I like to think of it as a game of "Don't let the carry die". The support should also put pressure on the enemy carry and make it harder for them to farm.
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#5Javij01Posted 2/5/2013 11:01:51 AM
if you keep losing as draven and don't do well bot lane try using someone a little safer like graves or corki
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#6TAMIUS_REBORNPosted 2/5/2013 11:09:25 AM(edited)
As ADC: Farm. If enemy gets out of position, hit then back up. Wait for support to make plays then go all in. If support is a useless "I SIT IN BUSHES DOING NOTHING WEEEEEE" derp then just farm and poke if they get out of position.

As Support: First go watch that youtube video about your area of influence. It shows handy little circles around you and your enemy and explains how your zone increases and decreases in relation to how many minions there are, use of bushes, distance from the turret, etc. Use that knowledge to zone out your enemy. Poke them, scare them, make opportunities for your ADC. If you're too far behind to be scary don't let them get free poke on you by trying to scare them off, just sit near your ADC ready to defend them if the enemy tries to make a move. That way your ADC can safely farm to get back into the game. If you're not scary and you try to be and they get free poke off of it then you're just going to die or have to b, leaving your adc alone to get zoned from all xp and gold.

And ward A LOT as support. NOT JUST GREEN WARDS. If you use some pink wards you can clear the way for ganks and make sure they don't have vision on dragon when you do it. That way you get the timer and they don't, improving your chances of getting dragon the next time too. Also always keep an eye on their support so you can tell your jungler where they have wards.
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#7Chibi_personPosted 2/5/2013 11:08:03 AM
First, play some bot in normals to learn the match ups a little bit better.

Second, If you are playing ad carry your goal is to last hit obviously. When your support wants to make a play go in with her. Sometimes in solo queue your support will suck so you will have to make plays but generally just worry about last hitting.

Third is support! No matter which support you play you want to apply pressure. I recommend buying a pink ward at start. When the enemy ad goes in to last hit, auto attack them/ cast a spell on them.
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#8VegerunksPosted 2/5/2013 11:10:18 AM
With Supports and ADCs it doesn't matter if you like the champion... you have to be good with them.

Draven is one of the harder ADCs because all his power comes from catching those Axes, if you get too focused on that though you can kill yourself from trying too hard.

Thresh is like Blitzcrank, you have to be passive and wait until there's an opening to pull them in. If your adc is close enough and Ready you should lunge in immediately after the 2nd pull and pop your ult, then Flip them behind you so they land on the wall. You use his Shield whenever your ADC is engaged so they get alil less poked.

Leona is about building Tanky and knowing when and when not to dive in with the zenith blade, try to activate your Armor buff before using the zenith blade so you can burst it before the stun is over. She's best with the hard hitting adc's like Caitlyn and Graves. Ezreal i guess could work with it too.

Finally, Lulu is all mana dependent she's a pokey support like Sona but unlike Sona she runs up her mana ALOT faster. You should focus on helping your ADC poke so the enemy either has to go back or your ADC gets a nice little kill in. Don't forget when you use your ult on someone it not only heals them but it knocks all enemies up in like a 200-300 radius. And Graces again is a good one with Lulu.

Playing bot is all about synergy and skill, you have to make sure your ADC knows what support your going so they can pick an adc accordingly if they like doing that type of stuff.

Kog & Nunu(Kog thrives on Attack speed), Lux and Caitlyn(A snare followed by the orb, laser, Caitlyn's Q, and Ace in the hole is almost a guaranteed kill), Sona and Miss Fortune(Set up a double ult for maximum damage for MF), Leona and Graves(Graves hits really hard but he lacks in some range compared to other ADCs so the massive stun lock is good for racking up kills)

And above all practice and learn more of the bot champions.
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#9Suffer_NotPosted 2/5/2013 11:12:43 AM(edited)
I'll keep it short, since I tend to vomit walls whenever I talk about bot lane stuff.

Bot lane comps tend to go one of 3 ways. You have poke lanes, aggressive lanes, and defensive lanes. Bot lane is won by trading more damage to your opponent than they can give to you.
Poke lanes succeed because they can trade damage without retaliation; Lulu's skillset gives her poke range that many champs cannot compete with.
Aggressive lanes win trades because they can trade larger amounts in shorter times than other comps; Draven and Leona have a lot of burst, so if they trade their full combo everytime they can they'll beat a lot of comps.
Defensive lanes have some way to mitigate damage or disengage from unfavorable trades, allowing them to win trades because the enemy is doing less damage than they normally would; Janna can shield her carry such that they'll do more damage, and as soon as the shield breaks she has the cc needed to get her carry out before they take much damage from the trade.


In general, Poke > Defensive > Aggressive > Poke. Defensive comps don't have a way to force trades against Poke comps and will eventually lose a war of attrition. Defensive comps will beat aggressive ones because they specialize in disengaging from bad fights. Aggressive ones beat poke comps because Poke comps do their damage over time and Aggressive ones do it all at once.

It's not quite that simple. Tons of other factors matter in the lane, and most supports and ADC can play different styles. This is just in general.

For Draven, you want to be aggressive. He does a lot of damage and it is very easy to zone someone out of exp range when you 3 shot them.

For Lulu, you want to poke. Her E/Q combo does a lot of damage from a really good range. She can also play defensively if you need to, as her kit is pretty good for disengaging.

For Leona, you want to be aggressive. You don't really have options for being defensive or poking; your kit is all about getting in people's face.

Tresh also wants to be aggressive. His kit is built around getting (or pulling) in, stopping them from disengaging easily, and having an escape to end the trade once you've done your burst.



Oh right, I forgot the most important thing. If the enemy does damage to you, and you don't do damage to them, they win the trade. Likewise for the reverse. If you can out trade them and force them out of lane, that is good. As the carry, your job is to farm and then trade when you have the opportunity. As the support, your job is to create trading opportunities or prevent the other team from trading with you.
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#10secdawgsPosted 2/5/2013 12:31:10 PM
I honestly suggest you go watch one of the pro's streams. Go watch chaox or someone play and sometimes they will even explain what they are doing.