Why Thresh is OP

#191Xander7756(Topic Creator)Posted 2/14/2013 12:32:34 PM
Xanemic posted...
Xander7756 posted...
Ephidel posted...
That's got to be some of the loosest math I've ever seen, Xander. Bronze V logic indeed.


How so exactly? I have a higher most captures, higher most neuts, higher or same most kills, and higher most points. Unlike Sid_Icarus's post which added nothing to the topic, these are records, not ratios or percentages that would fall over time. If anything, it is easier to INCREASE your best performance the more you play (whereas something like a win percentage would be harder to maintain over more games and thus fall).

Ladies and gentlemen, I am the best Dominion player on LoL. I challenge you to find someone with better Dominion stats.


You're rocking flash ignite in Dominion, that's sort of like rocking out Clarity/Smite as support J4 in Summoners rift.

Captured a lot of points? Having a high score? All signs that the match was relatively even, quite contrary to your claims of being such a beast. If you were nearly as good as you're claiming here I'd imagine minimal points captured (due to not giving them up in the first place) leading to a shorter game and fewer points.

As far as being such a high elo Dominion player goes Trimax4, pj11, chiclots were all in one of your recent games and have a dominion elo of 1415, 1179, and 1281; Given how Trimax4 (the 1415 player) was on your team, we could extrapolate that your dominion rating is lower in order to make up for the difference there.

Lolmatches links with the above information:
http://lolmatches.com/player/na/23644134/Trimax4
http://lolmatches.com/player/na/23088042/chiclots
http://lolmatches.com/player/na/19254534/pj11


Actually what happens in games is that I will go top, beat the enemy team, and take the Windmill. After trying to take it back from me and failing repeatedly, they eventually send 3 bot to avoid me and overcome my allies. Then I have to leave the point I'm guarding and go re-take something my teammates lost. Then when I leave that point, they go and capture that so I have to go back, re-capture it. They avoid me, and go for points my weaker teammates are guarding. That is why I have so many caps.

Oh and notice how I did better than Trimax4 in our game?
#192ohnoitslueshiPosted 2/14/2013 12:34:27 PM
Sid_Icarus posted...
From: jats605 | #853
From: Xander7756 | #171
Why are you guys all so mad? Is it because you got humbled by my stats?

Hardly.
You only play Dominion, then comment on a champ who's only real purpose is Summoner's Rift.
And then except us to take you seriously, even when we prove you dead wrong (see the Spotlight post).

It's honestly sad for someone with a College Degree :\

College Degree's don't mean much considering it's not particularly hard to get one nowadays


Judging by the quality of his posts, I'd say that his "degree" came straight from the University of Phoenix.
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"No more silly faces."
#193Xander7756(Topic Creator)Posted 2/14/2013 12:45:58 PM
ohnoitslueshi posted...
Sid_Icarus posted...
From: jats605 | #853
From: Xander7756 | #171
Why are you guys all so mad? Is it because you got humbled by my stats?

Hardly.
You only play Dominion, then comment on a champ who's only real purpose is Summoner's Rift.
And then except us to take you seriously, even when we prove you dead wrong (see the Spotlight post).

It's honestly sad for someone with a College Degree :\

College Degree's don't mean much considering it's not particularly hard to get one nowadays


Judging by the quality of his posts, I'd say that his "degree" came straight from the University of Phoenix.


Niagara University, actually. It is ranked among the best Northeastern Universities in the country.
#194XanemicPosted 2/14/2013 12:55:52 PM
Xander7756 posted...
--snip--

Actually what happens in games is that I will go top, beat the enemy team, and take the Windmill. After trying to take it back from me and failing repeatedly, they eventually send 3 bot to avoid me and overcome my allies. Then I have to leave the point I'm guarding and go re-take something my teammates lost. Then when I leave that point, they go and capture that so I have to go back, re-capture it. They avoid me, and go for points my weaker teammates are guarding. That is why I have so many caps.

Oh and notice how I did better than Trimax4 in our game?


No, I don't notice how you did better than Trimax4, given how the game has been already pushed out of his recent matches. If you're referring to the fact that you scored first that's hardly indicative of ability, take the disparity between getting a kill on and off of a point for example; Or even the difference between a kill and an assist score wise.

Or as a more extreme example of the score system being flawed, somebody who runs about constantly trying to ninja-cap a point, neutralizing it at best, and then dieing on top of it for the martyr bonus. That would seriously inflate their score while contributing minimally to the match.

As far as your issue of 'The enemy avoids me' goes, nothing in the final scores can indicate that. Only suggestion I could make in that regards is to not stand on top of the point (if you're doing that, give up that sweet +5 score bonus) and to instead lurk about in the jungle. If they're sending 3 bot you should have enough forewarning to either A: Respond with similar force or B: To capture their middle point (between windmill and base).
#195Xander7756(Topic Creator)Posted 2/14/2013 1:17:43 PM
Xanemic posted...
Xander7756 posted...
--snip--

Actually what happens in games is that I will go top, beat the enemy team, and take the Windmill. After trying to take it back from me and failing repeatedly, they eventually send 3 bot to avoid me and overcome my allies. Then I have to leave the point I'm guarding and go re-take something my teammates lost. Then when I leave that point, they go and capture that so I have to go back, re-capture it. They avoid me, and go for points my weaker teammates are guarding. That is why I have so many caps.

Oh and notice how I did better than Trimax4 in our game?


No, I don't notice how you did better than Trimax4, given how the game has been already pushed out of his recent matches. If you're referring to the fact that you scored first that's hardly indicative of ability, take the disparity between getting a kill on and off of a point for example; Or even the difference between a kill and an assist score wise.

Or as a more extreme example of the score system being flawed, somebody who runs about constantly trying to ninja-cap a point, neutralizing it at best, and then dieing on top of it for the martyr bonus. That would seriously inflate their score while contributing minimally to the match.

As far as your issue of 'The enemy avoids me' goes, nothing in the final scores can indicate that. Only suggestion I could make in that regards is to not stand on top of the point (if you're doing that, give up that sweet +5 score bonus) and to instead lurk about in the jungle. If they're sending 3 bot you should have enough forewarning to either A: Respond with similar force or B: To capture their middle point (between windmill and base).


Look at my recent games. I very rarely die. Clearly I am not boosting my points with Martyr bonuses.

I remember the game with trimax4 becuase it was just the last game I played. I went 14/0. He went 11/0. I also had more captures and neutralizations.

And yes, I do often cap their middle when they take our bot. It's a lot harder to hold an opponent's mid though because their fountain is right there. They can poke, go heal, and come back before you have a chance to heal at all. Eventually you have to either die or retreat. Then when my teammates can't re-take bot because they are bad, I have to go take it back myself. This is why you see me in games with 15 captures and my teammates with 3 or 4 captures. I regularly have teammates with 0-1 captures. When I instruct them what to do, they just don't listen. Can't really blame me for such losses.
#196Xander7756(Topic Creator)Posted 2/14/2013 2:19:14 PM
And for those of you trying to argue that I'm just facing bad players, what about this 2,300+ ELO Diamond III ranked player that I completely dominated? (she went 2/12/3 against me. I went 14/0/7).

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/23088042
#197XanemicPosted 2/14/2013 2:46:04 PM
Xander7756 posted...

Look at my recent games. I very rarely die. Clearly I am not boosting my points with Martyr bonuses.

I remember the game with trimax4 becuase it was just the last game I played. I went 14/0. He went 11/0. I also had more captures and neutralizations.

And yes, I do often cap their middle when they take our bot. It's a lot harder to hold an opponent's mid though because their fountain is right there. They can poke, go heal, and come back before you have a chance to heal at all. Eventually you have to either die or retreat. Then when my teammates can't re-take bot because they are bad, I have to go take it back myself. This is why you see me in games with 15 captures and my teammates with 3 or 4 captures. I regularly have teammates with 0-1 captures. When I instruct them what to do, they just don't listen. Can't really blame me for such losses.


The martyr thing was just an example of the inaccuracies of the score system. The kill/assists/on or off point examples though seems far more relevant. Didn't you have a game with something like 30 kills, 5 assists as Darius?

Captures/neutralizations/kills/assists aren't a great yardstick for showing your contribution to Dominion really. The bot laner is a key role (Imagine you had a competent bot laner who knew how to handle getting ganked, or perhaps one who knew how to dominate his lane and force them to send multiple people bot to retain their point, creating an advantage top) yet they'll often have a far lower mark on all fronts compared to the others.

Or as another example one player attempting to neutralize the point while another dives, who was the better player? The fellow who got 55 or however many points for the neutralize/capture assist (or outright neutralize/capture depending on how quickly he works) + kill, or the fellow who gave up additional score to prevent his ally from dieing to turret damage? If everybody is playing properly and they end up passing the neutralize-work back and forth (due to being interrupted) then one player could get 55 or more score (Kill + neutralize) while the other might be left with just 20 score (+5 from assist, 15 from neutralize assist).

Is the point at 0 risk of having the capture interrupted? Then it's not too uncommon to have everybody but one of the players do something else rather then have everybody use their time capping. Using Nidalee as an example she could've spent those extra seconds creating more map awareness through bushwhack placement, or prevent the enemy team from backcapping. There's plenty of situations where it would be more beneficial to the team to sacrifice their end-game score to perform an action like that.

I agree that your teammates are likely bad. You're playing in the 1000-1400 range of Dominion where such is a common. Using the end game stats to judge ability though is silly (let alone using it to compare yourself to other players). Without actually seeing you play (or something like Jabebot/Lolmatches pops up again to view your dominion rating) there's no honest way to compare yourself to other players (Wins->Losses works I suppose, you could guesstimate with that).
#198jats605Posted 2/14/2013 3:26:56 PM
From: Xander7756 | #193
ohnoitslueshi posted...
Sid_Icarus posted...
From: jats605 | #853
From: Xander7756 | #171
Why are you guys all so mad? Is it because you got humbled by my stats?

Hardly.
You only play Dominion, then comment on a champ who's only real purpose is Summoner's Rift.
And then except us to take you seriously, even when we prove you dead wrong (see the Spotlight post).

It's honestly sad for someone with a College Degree :\

College Degree's don't mean much considering it's not particularly hard to get one nowadays


Judging by the quality of his posts, I'd say that his "degree" came straight from the University of Phoenix.


Niagara University, actually. It is ranked among the best Northeastern Universities in the country.

Wow, then remind me not to go to college in the NE.
They can't even produce people who can admit they're wrong.
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Jets on runways with people in them can't be destroyed. Except sometimes they can but not most of the time. --it_r_over9000
#199Xander7756(Topic Creator)Posted 2/14/2013 3:30:00 PM
Xanemic posted...
Xander7756 posted...

Look at my recent games. I very rarely die. Clearly I am not boosting my points with Martyr bonuses.

I remember the game with trimax4 becuase it was just the last game I played. I went 14/0. He went 11/0. I also had more captures and neutralizations.

And yes, I do often cap their middle when they take our bot. It's a lot harder to hold an opponent's mid though because their fountain is right there. They can poke, go heal, and come back before you have a chance to heal at all. Eventually you have to either die or retreat. Then when my teammates can't re-take bot because they are bad, I have to go take it back myself. This is why you see me in games with 15 captures and my teammates with 3 or 4 captures. I regularly have teammates with 0-1 captures. When I instruct them what to do, they just don't listen. Can't really blame me for such losses.


The martyr thing was just an example of the inaccuracies of the score system. The kill/assists/on or off point examples though seems far more relevant. Didn't you have a game with something like 30 kills, 5 assists as Darius?

Captures/neutralizations/kills/assists aren't a great yardstick for showing your contribution to Dominion really. The bot laner is a key role (Imagine you had a competent bot laner who knew how to handle getting ganked, or perhaps one who knew how to dominate his lane and force them to send multiple people bot to retain their point, creating an advantage top) yet they'll often have a far lower mark on all fronts compared to the others.

Or as another example one player attempting to neutralize the point while another dives, who was the better player? The fellow who got 55 or however many points for the neutralize/capture assist (or outright neutralize/capture depending on how quickly he works) + kill, or the fellow who gave up additional score to prevent his ally from dieing to turret damage? If everybody is playing properly and they end up passing the neutralize-work back and forth (due to being interrupted) then one player could get 55 or more score (Kill + neutralize) while the other might be left with just 20 score (+5 from assist, 15 from neutralize assist).

Is the point at 0 risk of having the capture interrupted? Then it's not too uncommon to have everybody but one of the players do something else rather then have everybody use their time capping. Using Nidalee as an example she could've spent those extra seconds creating more map awareness through bushwhack placement, or prevent the enemy team from backcapping. There's plenty of situations where it would be more beneficial to the team to sacrifice their end-game score to perform an action like that.

I agree that your teammates are likely bad. You're playing in the 1000-1400 range of Dominion where such is a common. Using the end game stats to judge ability though is silly (let alone using it to compare yourself to other players). Without actually seeing you play (or something like Jabebot/Lolmatches pops up again to view your dominion rating) there's no honest way to compare yourself to other players (Wins->Losses works I suppose, you could guesstimate with that).


Actually, when I play bot lane, I still have the most points and captures on the team. If your theory is correct, that shouldn't happen. But it does.

Also, I'm playing in the 1,000 - 1,400 ELO range? Explain the 2,300+ ELO Diamond player that I owned in the game I just mentioned above then?

@jats: Who can't admit they are wrong? I have proven you guys wrong at every turn. I have provided statistics, game history, and screenshots. You said I play bad opponents, I showed you a Diamond player I beat. You said my game history was false, I provided screens. I haven't been wrong about anything. It's you guys who can't admit it.
#200Sir Spiffy CapePosted 2/14/2013 3:33:59 PM
Xander7756 posted...
blahblahblah


If you are so pro, why do you make money writing faulty articles instead of streaming the game?
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A game that promotes slavery and gambling under the illusion of 'friendship' and 'sportsmanship' is automatically an awesome game. - dydt