Can Garen actually be "countered"?

#61TimeBeardPosted 2/6/2013 1:20:37 PM
As someone who plays Garen a lot. Ranged champs. Teemo, Nidalee, Vlad are all very good at keeping him away from minions and underfarmed. Additionally, Garen is a very strong early game champ that falls off towards lategame. If you keep Garen behind early, he has relatively low presence lategame other than being a meat wall with a silence. Garen can beat almost every melee top without much issue due to the silence and inherent tankyness. The melee tops who can outdo him are Darius, who is simply a larger lane bully then him, and Yorick, the original counter to anyone up top.
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#62Lithsp(Topic Creator)Posted 2/6/2013 2:03:36 PM
Masemune_100 posted...
Lithsp posted...
Masemune_100 posted...
Zed. Your passive will never be up, you won't catch him with anything, he'll shove the lane as hard as you, and he can and will kill you.


Zed has no chance, at all. As the game progresses, it just gets harder and harder for Zed.
Absolute no chance.


TC confirmed for having no idea what he's talking about. You do realize that as the game progresses it gets easier for Zed to instant kill anyone he chooses right?


Yeah, not not Garen. Absolutely no way Zed can insta-kill Garen at any point in the game.
Garen has his W passive and the active to ensure he is not insta killed.

Zed does not stand a chance against Garen.
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#63Lithsp(Topic Creator)Posted 2/6/2013 2:05:51 PM
MIG297 posted...
AKizle posted...
The fact that people think Garen beats Jax or Darius in lane is comedy. Garen can go ahead and try to out-sustain Darius as he keeps applying hemorrhage to Garen every time they trade. Darius damage output is simply higher period and he can build more tanky because of his ridiculous abilities. Oh you're building armor shred? That's cute, Darius has armor pen as a passive. Oh you're level 6 and have an execution ult? Cool story, have you heard of this true damage ult I have? Oh you wanted to silence me? Ah ok, well let me just Q you and go around these minions here while you run around them wasting your Q.


And then you play against a Garen who knows he can just use his shield to win every trade with Darius and then go back and heal up what little damage he took with his passive.


This. Darius is a very easy lane for Garen. All Darius can do is Q poke, which pushes the waves, Garen can push back way harder, and deals a ****load more damage with his combo, because Darius is silenced.
Also, Garen's passive lolz at Darius passive, and Darius goes OOM very quickly if he tries to Q poke for too long anyway.

It's naturally a lane Garen wins, he has everything to win it.
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#64Lithsp(Topic Creator)Posted 2/6/2013 2:07:42 PM
RXPK posted...
One does not simply lane against Yorick, they fight to survive in lane.


I ban Yorick all the time because of this. I think he'd give Garen a hard time.
Would be hoping to survive and OOM him really.
Same with Elise. Elise beats everyone. She is the best top laner in the game.

As for Vayne, yeah, she probably wins, a quick Q-Flash sorts her out I'm sure though.
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#65Lithsp(Topic Creator)Posted 2/6/2013 2:09:25 PM
TimeBeard posted...
As someone who plays Garen a lot. Ranged champs. Teemo, Nidalee, Vlad are all very good at keeping him away from minions and underfarmed. Additionally, Garen is a very strong early game champ that falls off towards lategame. If you keep Garen behind early, he has relatively low presence lategame other than being a meat wall with a silence. Garen can beat almost every melee top without much issue due to the silence and inherent tankyness. The melee tops who can outdo him are Darius, who is simply a larger lane bully then him, and Yorick, the original counter to anyone up top.


Garen has an amazing late game.
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#66Masemune_100Posted 2/6/2013 3:57:37 PM
Lithsp posted...
Yeah, not not Garen. Absolutely no way Zed can insta-kill Garen at any point in the game.
Garen has his W passive and the active to ensure he is not insta killed.

Zed does not stand a chance against Garen.


Cho'Gath can auto die to Zed at mid and late game if he goes all in. Are you about to tell me that Garen is tankier than Cho?
And Zed doesn't have to kill him in laning. Anyone who can kite Garen and force him from lane beats him, since if he falls behind it's pretty hard to catch back up.
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#67EnricoMarini01Posted 2/6/2013 4:53:48 PM
Jax vs Garen

Garen wins early to mid, since he'll zone Jax from CS, ez pz. Jax doesn't have the damage pre6 to deal with Garen, so the jungler needs to come up. 2v2's, it'll depend, but Jax is slightly more helpful because of the hard CC.

Jax vs Garen is just really dumb. You'll outscale him, but there's 0 way for you to farm if he started 9 pots 2 wards and wards correctly, as your jungler's pressure will almost never result in a kill with Garen's speed up Q and his damage reduction W, and it'll relieve pressure from the other lanes. Not to mention, Garen is manaless and has an AA reset, and for Jax to even deal with that, he'll have to E fairly quickly, which drains his mana quite a bit (and doesn't negate the follow up spin of death)

Jax vs Darius

Darius has more damage early on if Darius is just passively farming. Darius only needs to back out and Q and he'll win the trade, even if Garen W's, as the passive hemmorage will still turn off Garen's passive, and the sweet spot for Darius' Q is way past Garen's range.

The PROBLEM is, Garen has W, which means if he keeps baiting Darius' Q, Dariius is gonna suffer a lot. The lanes get pushed rather fast with hemmorage damage and frequent decimates, and if Darius misses a Q (for whatever reason) Garen just jumps him and spins in his face, as no speed boost from Darius's hemmorage stack means he won't even have the little kiting power he has available.

Pre6, I'd say it's lane dependent. The smarter player wins, as a timed Garen W, or a good Darius Q will shift the lane favor fairly well (tho I'd give a small advantage to Dariusch) Post6, it's whoever gets the ult down faster. Darius needs 5 stacks then wrecks face, but Garen has a silence that can realy screw up Darius's combo.
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#68EnricoMarini01Posted 2/6/2013 4:58:49 PM
Lithsp posted...
TimeBeard posted...
As someone who plays Garen a lot. Ranged champs. Teemo, Nidalee, Vlad are all very good at keeping him away from minions and underfarmed. Additionally, Garen is a very strong early game champ that falls off towards lategame. If you keep Garen behind early, he has relatively low presence lategame other than being a meat wall with a silence. Garen can beat almost every melee top without much issue due to the silence and inherent tankyness. The melee tops who can outdo him are Darius, who is simply a larger lane bully then him, and Yorick, the original counter to anyone up top.


Garen has an amazing late game.


His late game is okay.

I wouldn't call it amazing. I'd call it significantly better than it was before, but I wouldn't call it amazing.

Olaf has an amazing late-game. Vlad has an amazing late-game.

Garen has an okay one.
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#69P00DGEPosted 2/6/2013 5:04:17 PM(edited)
TimeBeard posted...
As someone who plays Garen a lot. Ranged champs. Teemo, Nidalee, Vlad are all very good at keeping him away from minions and underfarmed. Additionally, Garen is a very strong early game champ that falls off towards lategame. If you keep Garen behind early, he has relatively low presence lategame other than being a meat wall with a silence. Garen can beat almost every melee top without much issue due to the silence and inherent tankyness. The melee tops who can outdo him are Darius, who is simply a larger lane bully then him, and Yorick, the original counter to anyone up top.


Teemo and Vlad perhaps, but not nidalee.

Nidalee melts like butter against Garen.

Also, Yorick isn't a counter to everyone up top. Off the top of my head, Nasus for one counters Yorick
#70EnricoMarini01Posted 2/6/2013 5:06:31 PM
P00DGE posted...
TimeBeard posted...
As someone who plays Garen a lot. Ranged champs. Teemo, Nidalee, Vlad are all very good at keeping him away from minions and underfarmed. Additionally, Garen is a very strong early game champ that falls off towards lategame. If you keep Garen behind early, he has relatively low presence lategame other than being a meat wall with a silence. Garen can beat almost every melee top without much issue due to the silence and inherent tankyness. The melee tops who can outdo him are Darius, who is simply a larger lane bully then him, and Yorick, the original counter to anyone up top.


Teemo and Vlad perhaps, but not nidalee.

Nidalee melts like butter against Garen.


Teemo craps on Garen, unless Garen flash Q/all-in.

Vlad is meh vs Garen. Garen forces a pool everytime his Q's gonna hit, so he'll have to be sneaky on how ti silence him.

Nid is okay. Not that great. Can get bullied rather easily, but the speed boost from the brush is not to be forgotten. that speed boost is ridiculously good against kiting vs Garen, and if Garen takes bush control, Nid can always move back or place traps. And at level 6, Nidalee doesn't care about Garen, as her pounce + brush boost is more than enough to escape scot free.
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So I'll know it will not leave me wanting, I see my heart, waving me bye-bye"