An Open Challenge to prove Elo Hell doesn't exist.

#21P00DGEPosted 2/9/2013 2:35:19 AM
Wayavas posted...
YOUR THEORY IS HIGLY FLAWED

If you are stuck in elo hell, then your team is full of noobs, but also the enemy team is full of noobs, so if you dont deserve to be in elo hell maybe you can carry your team to victory...yes you are going to lose some games but everyobne loses from time to time, the point about elo is that the more you play the more accurate it becomes, so if you keep going down on elo then maybe you might have some flaws you cant see because you are too busy seeing other people flaws


The way I always viewed ELO hell is that, yes, there will be bads on their team AND your team, but there will still be a couple good players floating around in elo hell, and there may even be one on the other team. It really comes down to luck because you have to hope you get a team that doesn't suck too badly. I have been consistently going super positive in ranked, and carrying the hell out of my teams, but I have lost 6 games in a row because I can't carry all of them, and there is generally one single other player on the other team who has a shred of talent/skill. I feel that I am playing at a higher level than those around me, but their performance drags me down with them.
#22titan6669Posted 2/9/2013 2:46:04 AM(edited)
At the beginning of season 2 I lost almost 20 games straight and fell to around 700 elo. Mostly my fault as losing steaks annoy me causing me to play like **** and give up super early on. I took a break for a week and came back desiring to just play and not worry about carrying, I ended up with a 87% win rate up till about 1400 and finished the season at 2190. it is really easy to punish bad players bronze and under assuming of course that you're playing a champ you're familiar with and can recognize when other people do questionable things.

I also occasionally play my friends account, who was 839elo when the change happened, winning also every game.


there is the MANY players that have dropped elo just to regain it showing elo hell doesn't exist. Oh and that plat guy who got his elo reset to 0 on his smurf and went like 160/5 or something insane like that playing just nid and twitch.
#23JennaTahliaPosted 2/9/2013 2:54:01 AM
Give me an account to do it with. I'm not going to throw 50 games just to prove you wrong
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#24TheSteelPhoenixPosted 2/9/2013 2:58:41 AM
So, I can give you the longer version, but the short and dirty:


A while ago I set out to see if Elo hell exist, im a comp physicist so simulations are sort of my thing.

Basically for Elo hell to exist there would need to be a constant stream of bad players who start at 1200 and lose several games then quit and never play again. Why?

1. Bad players are sorted to their appropriate skill level very quickly.

2. The sorting system is actually very powerful and accurate, so the only window in which a player can be above his appropriate Elo is when he starts at 1200 but his 'real' or 'deserved' rating is beneath it.

Why constant stream? Because once they are sorted properly, they can no longer affect games in which they are worse than their rating implies. So for thre to be a persistent region in which good players were being dragged down by REALLY bad players, there would constantly have to be a growing stream of players starting at 1200 and sinking, and a VERY large % of the current population at that. The population would basically have to be growing at an extremely fast rate, with a large % of those players being sub 1200 Elo in their skill level. Because Elo measures the group as a whole, this obviously couldn't exist either because all those players would shift the value of the baseline down (i.e., what 1200 means).

Now, as for why even if this was the case (it isn't, there aren't streams of bad players, it isn't sustainable), this would mean you also would have to have bad players on your team ONLY. The other team must never get a bad player otherwise you would get a win. This would average out over time. With you getting these 'bad' players (i.e. players beneath what they should be) and your enemy team getting them sometimes.

Which means that if you keep playing, you would get sorted correctly no matter what. As far as the simulations went, the longest it ever took someone to get sorted properly (assuming the players have a static skill level and don't get better as time goes one), was about 120 games. That was the slowest sort, the average was about 9 games.
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lol
#25MMG_Posted 2/9/2013 2:59:00 AM
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/954437-league-of-legends/65099337
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#26WayavasPosted 2/9/2013 3:00:10 AM
P00DGE posted...
Wayavas posted...
YOUR THEORY IS HIGLY FLAWED

If you are stuck in elo hell, then your team is full of noobs, but also the enemy team is full of noobs, so if you dont deserve to be in elo hell maybe you can carry your team to victory...yes you are going to lose some games but everyobne loses from time to time, the point about elo is that the more you play the more accurate it becomes, so if you keep going down on elo then maybe you might have some flaws you cant see because you are too busy seeing other people flaws


The way I always viewed ELO hell is that, yes, there will be bads on their team AND your team, but there will still be a couple good players floating around in elo hell, and there may even be one on the other team. It really comes down to luck because you have to hope you get a team that doesn't suck too badly. I have been consistently going super positive in ranked, and carrying the hell out of my teams, but I have lost 6 games in a row because I can't carry all of them, and there is generally one single other player on the other team who has a shred of talent/skill. I feel that I am playing at a higher level than those around me, but their performance drags me down with them.


So, if they are doing bad you start doing badly too?
Sometimes you just have to talk to people, in a civilised manner of course.
Ive seen games turned around and people who were doing bad start doing good just because they start working together...
If you dont deserve to be in ELO hell then you wont be...And since humans have no real way of measuring luck, you have no way to prove your point. (since statistics prove you wrong, ill stop here)
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#27syiloPosted 2/9/2013 3:16:12 AM
[This message was deleted at the request of a moderator or administrator]
#28gaara999999Posted 2/9/2013 3:31:50 AM
From: AStrawhatPirate | Posted: 2/9/2013 9:21:29 AM | #001
Elo Hell is being stuck at a certain Elo level where you are matched with players who feed, troll, AFK, D/C, Rage Quit or just generally don't know crap about this game about 90% of the time you play ranked. The game now relies more on luck than skill to get you out of this elo level.


You are never a troll, because if you are a troll, you can't complain about other trolls hindering you.

Therefore, your team has 4 potential slots for trolls, while the enemy team has 5 potential slots for trolls.

Because the enemy team has more open slots, no matter how many trolls there are in a game, on average the enemy team has more trolls. In which case, if you are mechanically a better player, it would be easy to win as your team has more non-troll players.

Conclusion: Elo hell using the definition you used doesn't exist because mathematics.
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#29LithspPosted 2/9/2013 4:41:20 AM
I think the key is basically to master a champ that can carry, or at least solo objectives.
Pick them no matter what, and only play them.
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#30Whacko JackoPosted 2/9/2013 6:27:09 AM
Using the law of averages you already have an advantage over the other team if you are as good as you think you are.

If everybody else is trolling/leaving/AFKing/etc, then you will be put into a 5v5 with your team having you with your higher skill level, already knocking out 1 of those 5 spots. So that means your team only has 4 other spots for trolls/afkers/leavers leaving the enemy team with the chance to have 5/5 of them be trolls/afkers/leavers. Over a span of enough games you should come out ahead and above to the elo you truly belong at.

-Except in the new ranking system, you can't drop below silver/gold/plat/diamond so this kind of ends up breaking the system if you think about it. Eventually everybody will progress over a long enough time span and amount of games played.



There have been plenty of people that have proven that if you are skilled then you can carry yourself up easily. Shown by people that had multiple 2k+ elo accounts in the past.