An Open Challenge to prove Elo Hell doesn't exist.

#31mrg59Posted 2/9/2013 5:44:33 AM
What people truly fail to notice with this elo hell doesn't exist crap, is that there is a minimum skill cap in order for you to just carry yourself out.

What I mean is, sure, these plat V and higher players can carry themselves out. Ask a professional NBA player to play in a HS game, will stomp.

However, what if, because I NEVER get to play with even gold players, I'm not at a platinum level? Not because I don't have the ability, but because I can't practice against the best. Why do you think the pro players from Japan rarely make it to the usa to play baseball? You can only he the best at the level you play at, you cannot be the best of a level you are unable to play in.

Back to the basketball metaphor, it's obvious an NBA player can carry a team to victory in some HS state championship game. However, take some decent college player. Guess what, he's the best on the court, but he still needs a supporting cast.

THAT is what I'm talking about. I will just say I believe my skill level right now is somewhere ranging from mid-high silver, maybe even low gold. I still make the mistakes made at those levels. Does that mean I'm bad? No, it means I have never even played against a plat player, and only played against maybe 20 gold players total in 2 years.

Elo hell exists, idiots just refuse to see the comparison with the basketball situation. That's how it is. We don't need some NBA player to come prove he can climb out, he's already good. We need some college player who is still working, trying to improve, to come carry himself out when he has ABSOLUTELY NO opportunity to practice and learn against/with better players.
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#32Master Of The DeadPosted 2/9/2013 6:40:28 AM
It makes me laugh how people can believe in Elo hell. The numbers are always in your favour. If you belong in 1900 elo, but are currently 1200. Then that means your team has four 1200s and one 1900, where as the enemy has five 1200s.

Sure you might get people rage and DC etc, but they have 5 people that can do that, whereas you only have 4. The odds are always in your favour to climb. That's why I think that Elo is a good measure even in Solo Q.
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#33Shannon232Posted 2/9/2013 7:57:31 AM
The people who use "Elo hell" is categorized by 2 groups.
The people who belong at their current elo and the people who give up.

People who belong.
I myself have some bronze friends who claim they're better than bronze and it's trolls and "Elo hell" keeping them down, but when spectating I was able to see what they couldn't, they made mistakes, at low elo this is the difference between winning and losing, people like to watch pro's and say "Oh top got a kill it's snowballed gg", that's high elo where players know in depth about the game. Low elo pretty much can come down to which team messes up last, the worst offender is mostly lack of experience, low elo players can have skill but lack direction and that's why they're there, sure you might go 20/3 but if you don't know when to stop chasing, when to baron, when to push, then you don't belong any higher, some of my friends can get kills and win lanes almost every time, but late game instead of grouping they'll farm wolves, or go into the other teams jungle without wards and get caught, attempt dangerous Baron's or the worst offender, acing the enemy team and instead of just flat out winning the game going for baron.

People who give up.
Some games aren't winnable, I'll say that now, sometime's you just can not win, you might get outplayed your team might not be the best, might have a dc or afk, but if you truly belong in a different elo you WILL climb, provided that you are competent and belong out of this elo at that rate you have an 80% chance of getting a bad player/rager/afk. But the other team has 100%, most people I know claim they're stuck in their elo and when I look at their games they gave up after 20 games. It's not going to be instant or easy, but if you truly belong somewhere higher then you will get there.

How do I know this?
I used to believe, it was everyone else's fault for me losing, Season 1 i got 874 elo and that was 100% my teams fault, I played properly but they all sucked. WRONG. I needed to improve, Season 2 I started at 900 elo and gave up again, one morning I decided I would try and climb and made it first to 1200, then 1400 and stayed there, Season 3 before the divisions I made it to 1470 Elo and landed myself in division II in silver first go, because of my experience I knew what cost games at low elo, I knew what would help win matches, while Silver Div 2 or 1400-1500 isn't very high, looking back at season 1 I have improved dramatically as a player and now know when I have messed up and learn from it, way I see it I can only climb higher until I find where I belong.

TL:DR You belong in your elo.
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#34VoidgolemPosted 2/9/2013 8:00:15 AM
I do not believe Elo Hell exists.

I do believe short-term stretches of awful games can kill one's motivation to play Ranked, though. Sample bias OP.
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#35Shannon232Posted 2/9/2013 8:07:23 AM
From: mrg59 | #031
What people truly fail to notice with this elo hell doesn't exist crap, is that there is a minimum skill cap in order for you to just carry yourself out.

What I mean is, sure, these plat V and higher players can carry themselves out. Ask a professional NBA player to play in a HS game, will stomp.

However, what if, because I NEVER get to play with even gold players, I'm not at a platinum level? Not because I don't have the ability, but because I can't practice against the best. Why do you think the pro players from Japan rarely make it to the usa to play baseball? You can only he the best at the level you play at, you cannot be the best of a level you are unable to play in.

Back to the basketball metaphor, it's obvious an NBA player can carry a team to victory in some HS state championship game. However, take some decent college player. Guess what, he's the best on the court, but he still needs a supporting cast.

THAT is what I'm talking about. I will just say I believe my skill level right now is somewhere ranging from mid-high silver, maybe even low gold. I still make the mistakes made at those levels. Does that mean I'm bad? No, it means I have never even played against a plat player, and only played against maybe 20 gold players total in 2 years.

Elo hell exists, idiots just refuse to see the comparison with the basketball situation. That's how it is. We don't need some NBA player to come prove he can climb out, he's already good. We need some college player who is still working, trying to improve, to come carry himself out when he has ABSOLUTELY NO opportunity to practice and learn against/with better players.


I'm sorry to point you out but honestly if you were "ranging from mid-high silver, maybe even low gold." you wouldn't be at Bronze Div 3 with 344 games.

Going back to your Basketball comparison, if a league had a bunch of average players, couple bads and you who someone else who was great and deserved higher, then the team with the better player has better odd's to win, will that team win them all? No, but they have a high chance to win a majority of them.

When I was 10 I played basketball in division II, I was the mvp player and my team won every single game with a huge score difference, one week we were told we were bumped up to the next division and won 1 game in the whole season, just because we were better than everyone at division 2, does not mean we were equal or better than division 1 players, as is the same with elo.
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#36Last_matterPosted 2/9/2013 8:35:56 AM
You do realise that this has been done often already and all those who tried succeded easily.

So your are basically either ignorant in which case you should research before throwing such ''challenge'' or you should accept the fact that is has already been proven and move on.
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#37DrewdadruidPosted 2/9/2013 8:41:24 AM(edited)
Kind of not important but bullistic was reep's original get out of elo hell on which he built carrystar and Aruarian Dance was tinker's. They DUO every game. In most of their games if they were to play solo they would not be able to carry (just watch them and they 2 man the other team while their team feeds and throws, but they feed each other and without someone to work with I don't think they could win some of these games)
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#38sabeta_samaPosted 2/9/2013 8:45:33 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MTO2a7ZFcc

/thread

I've talked to some of my platinum friends who are way better than me, and they all pretty much agree that good players will carry themselves out of the supposed ELO hell. You are statistically just as likely to encounter trolls and feeders as the other team, so in the end you can only blame yourself (unless you run into the rare case of multiple D/cs)

Those higher level players tend to say that playing in Low Elo is like playing against Bots, even if your entire team feeds you can usually carry hard enough to stop it.
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#39DrewdadruidPosted 2/9/2013 8:47:40 AM
From: sabeta_sama | #038
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MTO2a7ZFcc

/thread

I've talked to some of my platinum friends who are way better than me, and they all pretty much agree that good players will carry themselves out of the supposed ELO hell. You are statistically just as likely to encounter trolls and feeders as the other team, so in the end you can only blame yourself (unless you run into the rare case of multiple D/cs)

Those higher level players tend to say that playing in Low Elo is like playing against Bots, even if your entire team feeds you can usually carry hard enough to stop it.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/954437-league-of-legends/64819755
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#40ikilledkenny2Posted 2/9/2013 8:55:27 AM
mrg59 posted...
What people truly fail to notice with this elo hell doesn't exist crap, is that there is a minimum skill cap in order for you to just carry yourself out.

What I mean is, sure, these plat V and higher players can carry themselves out. Ask a professional NBA player to play in a HS game, will stomp.

However, what if, because I NEVER get to play with even gold players, I'm not at a platinum level? Not because I don't have the ability, but because I can't practice against the best. Why do you think the pro players from Japan rarely make it to the usa to play baseball? You can only he the best at the level you play at, you cannot be the best of a level you are unable to play in.

Back to the basketball metaphor, it's obvious an NBA player can carry a team to victory in some HS state championship game. However, take some decent college player. Guess what, he's the best on the court, but he still needs a supporting cast.

THAT is what I'm talking about. I will just say I believe my skill level right now is somewhere ranging from mid-high silver, maybe even low gold. I still make the mistakes made at those levels. Does that mean I'm bad? No, it means I have never even played against a plat player, and only played against maybe 20 gold players total in 2 years.

Elo hell exists, idiots just refuse to see the comparison with the basketball situation. That's how it is. We don't need some NBA player to come prove he can climb out, he's already good. We need some college player who is still working, trying to improve, to come carry himself out when he has ABSOLUTELY NO opportunity to practice and learn against/with better players.


honestly if you are stuck in silver after two years, it means you are complete **** at the game, and not because "i never get to play with better players". I've been playing for about 3 months and I'm at the same level as you. I acknowledge that anyone in silver and gold is really, really bad at the game, myself included. You get better by learning from your own mistakes, not from having better players tell you that you suck and need to gtfo, which is exactly what would happen if you played in gold/plat. Every time you finish laning phase, as your self what you could have done better, every teamfight, do the same thing, ect.