Need some Elise advice

#1shingo fanPosted 2/24/2013 3:48:59 PM
Played her off and on since her free week, and I have two questions:

1) Any tips on last-hitting in her human? That AA animation is so slow...
2) I'm still a little shaky on her item build. I usually go:

Boots+pots or flask+pots
Guise
MPen boots (maybe Treads if they have tons of CC)
Tank up (Warmog's, FH, etc.)
Finish Torment

I heard RoA is good on her if you're facing a tough lane, which makes me wonder what champs give her a hard time since she's like an AP version of Yorick.
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Question: What is with the internet's love of hyperbole?
#2mutation10101Posted 2/24/2013 4:27:25 PM(edited)
shingo fan posted...
Played her off and on since her free week, and I have two questions:

1) Any tips on last-hitting in her human? That AA animation is so slow...
2) I'm still a little shaky on her item build. I usually go:

Boots+pots or flask+pots
Guise
MPen boots (maybe Treads if they have tons of CC)
Tank up (Warmog's, FH, etc.)
Finish Torment

I heard RoA is good on her if you're facing a tough lane, which makes me wonder what champs give her a hard time since she's like an AP version of Yorick.


1) Her AA damage is pretty bad in human form, just last hit in spider form.
2) It's situational. I usually go for Glacial Shroud 1st if the enemy is good at ranged ad poke, or HG if not. Sorc boots, finish up FH and Liandry's. Then if I need more damage I go Abyssal, if I need to be more tanky, Warmogs. Elise has pretty good sticking power so I don't usually go Rylia's. I build abyssal/Warmogs *Whatever I didn't build 1st* And last item I build for the moment again. Void Staff if my team is tanky enough, or Randuins if not.
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10-6-12 The day LoL kept crashing to save the wards.
#3mutation10101Posted 2/24/2013 4:59:19 PM
And side note, the only champions I had problems laning against were Nid and Voli, though it doesn't help in both cases I got camped hardcore by their jungler/mid.
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10-6-12 The day LoL kept crashing to save the wards.
#4shingo fan(Topic Creator)Posted 2/24/2013 5:44:52 PM
mutation10101 posted...
shingo fan posted...
Played her off and on since her free week, and I have two questions:

1) Any tips on last-hitting in her human? That AA animation is so slow...
2) I'm still a little shaky on her item build. I usually go:

Boots+pots or flask+pots
Guise
MPen boots (maybe Treads if they have tons of CC)
Tank up (Warmog's, FH, etc.)
Finish Torment

I heard RoA is good on her if you're facing a tough lane, which makes me wonder what champs give her a hard time since she's like an AP version of Yorick.


1) Her AA damage is pretty bad in human form, just last hit in spider form.
2) It's situational. I usually go for Glacial Shroud 1st if the enemy is good at ranged ad poke, or HG if not. Sorc boots, finish up FH and Liandry's. Then if I need more damage I go Abyssal, if I need to be more tanky, Warmogs. Elise has pretty good sticking power so I don't usually go Rylia's. I build abyssal/Warmogs *Whatever I didn't build 1st* And last item I build for the moment again. Void Staff if my team is tanky enough, or Randuins if not.


I was referring to Rod of Ages, not Rylai's.
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Question: What is with the internet's love of hyperbole?
#5ItsSpotlightPosted 2/24/2013 6:09:48 PM
Rod of Ages could be good, but I don't find it worth the time (though I haven't tried much with it, my next game I may go for it if I get more fed early). She doesn't really need high AP, and you get Warmogs, Glacial, and Abyssal optimally for tankiness. You want to stack pen more than AP. I wouldn't bother with Liandry's. Sell the Guise for a Void Staff later on. Rylai's slow is nice on her, plus the bonus AP and HP helps. Early Guise or Sorcs are a huge boost to your poke on Q. I generally get Sorcs and both crystals early, then build guise or glacial, depending on situation. And then continue the rest of the build.

As for human form auto attacks, the best thing you can do is practice. Maybe even take a friend and go 1 v 1 top lane and work on CS primarily, while under some lane pressure from them.
#6mutation10101Posted 2/24/2013 6:12:02 PM
shingo fan posted...
mutation10101 posted...
shingo fan posted...
Played her off and on since her free week, and I have two questions:

1) Any tips on last-hitting in her human? That AA animation is so slow...
2) I'm still a little shaky on her item build. I usually go:

Boots+pots or flask+pots
Guise
MPen boots (maybe Treads if they have tons of CC)
Tank up (Warmog's, FH, etc.)
Finish Torment

I heard RoA is good on her if you're facing a tough lane, which makes me wonder what champs give her a hard time since she's like an AP version of Yorick.


1) Her AA damage is pretty bad in human form, just last hit in spider form.
2) It's situational. I usually go for Glacial Shroud 1st if the enemy is good at ranged ad poke, or HG if not. Sorc boots, finish up FH and Liandry's. Then if I need more damage I go Abyssal, if I need to be more tanky, Warmogs. Elise has pretty good sticking power so I don't usually go Rylia's. I build abyssal/Warmogs *Whatever I didn't build 1st* And last item I build for the moment again. Void Staff if my team is tanky enough, or Randuins if not.


I was referring to Rod of Ages, not Rylai's.


I know you were, but she doesn't really need the mana or the AP from RoA. I put Rylia's in becaus eI see a lot of Elise's build it, and although it isn't bad, there are better choices to have on her.
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10-6-12 The day LoL kept crashing to save the wards.
#7AvisonPosted 2/24/2013 6:13:13 PM
Here's a quick write-up:

-------------ITEMS------------

Elise's build varies heavily depending on the enemy champs. This is an asset because her kit guarantees good damage which allows you more build variety.

You just need to get used to last hitting in human form. You need the range not to get harassed. Never buy a flash as you aren't going to get much use out of it. Try to lifesteal hp back with your spider form w when you're on your tower.

Your spider form abilities cost no mana. You can easily last hit siege creeps with your spider form Q. In spider form if you get relatively close to creeps your spiderlings will move in front of you and attack things. You can use this to shield yourself from nidalee's spears and etc.

Max the Q first, get a point in E at level 2 (then let it sit at lvl 1 until you've maxed everything else). Up your ult whenever you can.

Get your sorc boots first. Then build the haunting guise. This is almost always your starting build. The vamp lets your percentage based damage shine through and scale very well. I usually build the veil into a liandrys.

This is where your build can vary. You almost always want to build items with HP and AP on them.

If you're winning your lane and no one on the enemy team is particularly fed a Rylais provides a lot of utility. It will stop anyone from getting away and you can retreat easily in human form by throwing a w spider behind you which will aoe slow the enemy team. All your abilities apply its slow. Your spider form Q allows you to close and provide a steady stream of insane damage via spiderlings with W, your auto attacks, and repeated Q's.

Frozen fist is another amazing item if the enemy team is heavily AD. Aoe slow, sheen proc, armor, and ap. You can also build a lich bane for a pure damage increase... but only build one of these items as the passive doesn't stack.

Build a zhonyas if the enemy team is AD heavy or if you get focused a lot.

Build an abyssal if you're getting a lot of trouble from ap champs or if the enemy team is stacking MR.

I can also recommend a Warmoggs as your 4th item. HP is the end all of defensive stats this season because of how readily available and cost efficient it is. Once you have your first 3 items damage won't be an issue for the rest of the game (usually) and a moggs will let you stay in with prolonged damage.


--------------Playstyle-------------

You want to be in human form while harassing in lane. Poke with your Q's to wittle them down. A good technique is to walk to the sides of the lane and launch a W spider diagonally into the middle of the lane. This forces them to move into your creeps to dodge... or they won't think and just get hit.

Your W in spider form is great for getting health. Wander out of lane after a clear to get hp from wraiths or when getting blue yourself.

Your E in spider form is great for juking. You can use it near the wraiths or any jungle camp to jump a wall and get away. You can also run away from the enemy creeps while they chase, go up, and come down away from them on the creeps for a free get away.

-----------GOING IN FOR THE KILL-----------
This varies. If they're spacing is good you won't be able to stun them with E, drop Q and W... swtich to spider, Q, press W, auto attack, E if they get out of range, then Q again.

Usually their spacing is better. You'll have to go in in spider form, Q, go human, E stun them, Q and W, switch to spider and Q, into W.


I've climbed to the top of gold using elise when she isn't banned. If you have any questions or suggestions I'd be happy to engage in discourse or provide suggestions. Have a good one.
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-True knowledge is understanding why you truly know nothing.
GT: "Avison Atrius" BB Mains: Hakumen, Arakune
#8DeanyzyPosted 2/24/2013 6:16:47 PM
You just have to practice with her auto attack, I find it's easier to last hit with her classic skin, Death Blossom's particle just feels very slow to me.

I build pretty much the same way as you do, She only really needs Mpen to deal damage so it's better to focus on tankiness. I don't think RoA would be an awful item to buy but I think it'd be overkill when you're already building FH and Warmogs.
#9ItsSpotlightPosted 2/24/2013 9:17:38 PM(edited)
The one person said to max Q first, I used to do this, but it isn't worth it. Level up your W primarily. Your Q doesn't gain percentage with each level, so for damage output your W is the way to go, in spider form it will help you destroy towers quicker, and in human it will add a nice bit of damage. Something to keep drilled into your head; your human W will speed up and chase when a champion is in range, so it can be good to get a kill on a running target. It also gives vision and will home in on people in bushes.

Also remember you can use your spider form E to jump to jungle camps, baron, or dragon, to help you escape (just be careful you're not so low that those would kill you.) if someone turret dives you you can human E them and get some burst in, then switch to spider and E for invincibility while the turret still aggros them, possibly E'ing onto them when they go to escape and Q'ing to get a kill.