I honestly think they need to change Skarner's E to something else.

#21omega bahumat(Topic Creator)Posted 3/4/2013 11:46:27 AM
TomorrowDog posted...
TAMIUS_REBORN posted...
Regardless of how you feel about Skarner (op, up, etc) arguing that a champion is so good that the correct way to balance them is to make one skill so bad it may as well not even exist is an extremely weak and lazy solution. If his other skills are so amazingly op, which I don't believe they are, that giving him a skill players would actually want one point in would break him, then they need to tone down his other skills and change the one that's useless.


You enjoy basking in your ideals.

I'll choose a champion that works now.


He is correct though. You are incorrect.

Skarner works as is - but he has a completely irrelevant ability.
#22omega bahumat(Topic Creator)Posted 3/4/2013 11:47:06 AM
TomorrowDog posted...
Smart employers actually prize people who are grounded in reality and don't just preach shallow "perfect world" solutions.


People that are grounded in reality have no ambition and are only hired to be drones and not lead anyone anywhere.

So yes. They will hire you. But you won't advance anywhere.
#23omega bahumat(Topic Creator)Posted 3/4/2013 11:50:21 AM
zefig posted...
I agree with some of the other posters, that if remade, some things will be taken from other skills to make up for it.

For example, his Shield also gives him attack speed and move speed. One of those could be easily shifted to Fracture.


I think his shield is fine. It has an 18 second cooldown, and only gives buffs while it's active.

Compare to nautilus and janna. Nautilus you want to use W after he has absorbed burst to maintain DPS. Janna wants to use her E after burst (if carry can survive to trade) or prior to an engagement.

Skarner must use W to gapclose (MS buff) but loses the AS buff (that the MS buff is there to help with) once the shield drops. It's in a perfectly fine place.

I don't think E needs CC. I think it just needs something that works with his other abilities. Most likely Q.
#24MIG297Posted 3/4/2013 11:51:48 AM
omega bahumat posted...
negative4 posted...
The point is that Skarner is already strong enough as it is. Innate tankiness, permaslow, and a small shield. I swear, E is just a filler move to not make him ridiculously OP.


But it's ****ing useless.

Name one other champion that (not counting passives) has a move that is so contrary to their kit and can needlessly impede them by using it.

If it didn't have a cast animation that stopped your movement, I probably would like it more.


Urgots ult
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#25TAMIUS_REBORNPosted 3/4/2013 11:57:28 AM
TomorrowDog posted...
Smart employers actually prize people who are grounded in reality and don't just preach shallow "perfect world" solutions.


I don't see how I'm preaching "shallow 'perfect world' solutions." If one aspect of a champion is too strong and is compensated for by breaking another aspect then yes, it works, but it's a cheap and lazy solution to the actual problem. The correct way to deal with the problem is to balance all aspects. Obviously, Skaner works now, but when resources are less tied up in more important areas it would be worth using some to go back and balance Skarner the correct way, instead of permanently leaving him in this state of "well...it works."
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#26negative4Posted 3/4/2013 11:59:12 AM
ITT "I feel like a skill is useless, therefore Riot should change it".

It's a sniping tool and honestly, it's only because it costs so much mana that nobody wants to use it. Otherwise, it would be an amazing skill to help sustain his jungling. There's no way Riot will rework one skill to make you happy and make it feel "relevant" to his kit (and I actually like the skill late game as opposed to early game - the damage and heal is minor but like I said, it's snipes nicely and can secure or help secure kills with the added damage). He needs something like a weak ranged skillshot rather than more utility to keep him from becoming too strong anyways.
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#27neon screenPosted 3/4/2013 12:17:56 PM
Skarner needs a sniping tool as much as mages need an AD steroid
#28omega bahumat(Topic Creator)Posted 3/4/2013 12:26:24 PM
MIG297 posted...
omega bahumat posted...
negative4 posted...
The point is that Skarner is already strong enough as it is. Innate tankiness, permaslow, and a small shield. I swear, E is just a filler move to not make him ridiculously OP.


But it's ****ing useless.

Name one other champion that (not counting passives) has a move that is so contrary to their kit and can needlessly impede them by using it.

If it didn't have a cast animation that stopped your movement, I probably would like it more.


Urgots ult


Urgot's Ult works well with his kit actually.
#29MetleonPosted 3/4/2013 12:29:42 PM
negative4 posted...
The point is that Skarner is already strong enough as it is. Innate tankiness, permaslow, and a small shield. I swear, E is just a filler move to not make him ridiculously OP.


In that case, just make it completely passive and make it so he heals X damage every basic attack and use of Crystal Slash.
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#30omega bahumat(Topic Creator)Posted 3/4/2013 12:33:57 PM
negative4 posted...
ITT "I feel like a skill is useless, therefore Riot should change it".

It's a sniping tool and honestly, it's only because it costs so much mana that nobody wants to use it. Otherwise, it would be an amazing skill to help sustain his jungling. There's no way Riot will rework one skill to make you happy and make it feel "relevant" to his kit (and I actually like the skill late game as opposed to early game - the damage and heal is minor but like I said, it's snipes nicely and can secure or help secure kills with the added damage). He needs something like a weak ranged skillshot rather than more utility to keep him from becoming too strong anyways.


Missing the point entirely. His E is worthless and adds nothing to his Kit.

Ryze's E is in a similar boat, but at least that lowers MR and bounces which adds to his combo potential.

He needs a weak ranged skillshot like master yi needs his ult to not remove slows. It's cumbersome and unrewarding. He wouldn't become too strong either. Look at his competition.

VI:

Very long range suppression, works as a gap closer, knocks aside enemies hit.
Gap closer that knocks aside enemy champions
Passive ability that procs every 3 strikes, does %HP damage, increases AS, and decreases opposition armor
AOE AA reset
Shield that allows one to absorb damage while being in melee range

Lee:
I really don't need to discuss this kit

Jarvan: (another favourite of mine)
Force a flash or die ult
Gapcloser+knockup+armorshred+Armor and AS buff
AOE slow+shield
%HP damage

Maokai:
Knockup/slow
trap/reveal
%HP heal on cast (works on both casts of ultimate)
AOE Damage reducer
Snare

All of these champions have complete synergy across their abilities and I could keep going. Point is that even though he might be perceived as too strong initially - it will really just keep him in line with what other champions similar to him are already doing.

He is strong as is, and I don't expect them to not nerf something somewhere, but I would like to play Skarner with a bit more skill than:
Hit W, Spam Q, hit R

There is no point where I really 'want' E unless it's lategame or I for some reason need more sustain (IE: I likely misplayed something).