Jungler is such a thankless role.

#11gallantknightPosted 3/11/2013 3:02:16 AM
I have sometimes managed to get my ad carry to say "gg Soraka/Volibear/Nunu". Once in a while the AD carry on my side will be a rude prick who thinks he did great, and the enemy adc/support will go "that was all Soraka/Nunu/Volibear, stfu."

So that's something I guess.

I guess what TC is getting at is that the chances of a support or jungler getting recognition is pretty low, even if it does feel great when it DOES happen. I guess this is just a result of the way the scoreboard looks... people don't look at the setup often enough, just the end result, when the important part is the set up so you know how to accomplish/look for the same things in the future.
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#12ShotgunBulletPosted 3/11/2013 3:10:16 AM
g-cube_masta posted...
nah


support is worse for this sort of thing. AD carry gets all the credit for being fed while you're holding the spoon.


As a jungler I've made the enemy team go "gg jarvan"


but you're hard pressed to get a "gg lulu"


Only once I got a compliment for being support. As lulu I kept their fed carry locked down every team fight, which gave us the victory. I got a comment "Lulu MVP" from the entire enemy team and my team. This has never happened again >.>
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#13Vorador47Posted 3/11/2013 3:17:06 AM
indeed being a jungler can be frustrating. as your the easy target to put the blame on if someone looses their lane.

the one that annoys me is when you get them crying about how they have been ganked 5 times and i haven't ganked once. the reason for that is simple your pushing all the time, making it very inviting for their jungler. and making it pointless for me to waste time sitting round by your lane doing nothing waiting to see if you will get pushed back or ganked.
#14I_love_SunnyDPosted 3/11/2013 3:17:49 AM
I agree that its worse for support.

ADC gets all the credit(understandable tbh) and you're lucky if you can ride on the coattails.

If the ADC sucks and has no idea what they are doing, you're at fault.
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#15gallantknightPosted 3/11/2013 3:17:55 AM
ShotgunBullet posted...
g-cube_masta posted...
nah


support is worse for this sort of thing. AD carry gets all the credit for being fed while you're holding the spoon.


As a jungler I've made the enemy team go "gg jarvan"


but you're hard pressed to get a "gg lulu"


Only once I got a compliment for being support. As lulu I kept their fed carry locked down every team fight, which gave us the victory. I got a comment "Lulu MVP" from the entire enemy team and my team. This has never happened again >.>


Didn't that feel hella good though

It's easy to get recognition when you're top Irelia/Elise/Olaf or fed Mid Ryze/Morgana/Lux.
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#16dennis941012Posted 3/11/2013 3:18:20 AM
From: TheSteelPhoenix | #008
Yes. For me, the interesting part is WHY people feel so entitled.

Also, no one ever realizes that a good jungler often carries the game, makes all the play, etc. Got my carry a double kill as maokai one game at 4 minute mark. Then I proceeded to have entire kill coverage for the game (i got 43 kills+ assist(i think it was 4 and 39) when the team had 44 kills total). I remember making every single play except for a top kill. Who thinks they won the game? the 20 kill carry.

Or the opposite, if you are snowballing, they start going "SHARE THE KILLS". Or people just throw away jungle advantege. Have had numerous games that were almost lost because I'm 15/0 as elise at the 20 minute mark and they are refusing to take towers cause "i need more farm", at that point when I can one shot the squishies with a walking spider, you push for the win. Thankfully the enemy team just usually surrenders at that point.

Also there is this really erroneous belief that if someone has a lot of kills, they MUST have taken them from someone. First, sometimes taking a kill is the difference between securing it and them walking away. Secondly, sometimes someone isn't envolved at all, which means you couldn't give it away if you wanted too.

Just stick in there, its one of the few fun positions IMO.


why am I not entitled to jungler being worth something?
I expect junglers to gank my lane if I am pushed/camped
or atleast ward my lane if I am getting camped and zoned out with lack of gold
I also expect jungler to smite everything perfectly
I expect jungler to stop going ham and feeding my lane double buff
I expect jungler to ward their jungle if they are getting counter jungled
I expect jungler to help multiple lanes not just one
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#17gallantknightPosted 3/11/2013 3:32:38 AM
dennis941012 posted...


why am I not entitled to jungler being worth something?
I expect junglers to gank my lane if I am pushed/camped


This is true until you're too far behind to warrant ganking for, at that point you're going to have to bite the bullet and bide your time.

We're around to win the game, not help you win back your lane when you're 0/5/1. If we make the judgement call that helping someone else will help more in the long term and give us a higher chance of winning the game, sorry, but them's the ropes. We have nothing against you.

or atleast ward my lane if I am getting camped and zoned out with lack of gold

That should be done, but ideally they're smart enough to ward properly and they don't get ****ed before I can even show presence. Also, just go with the vision ward if there's an Eve, she WILL get a successful gank off somewhere and it's already too late to go for the vision ward then. Ideally we'll show up and give you some breathing room, or coordinate a gank with mid or whoever's available so we can mess 'em up.

I also expect jungler to smite everything perfectly
We try. I guess we all expect everyone to land clutch everything all the time, but that never works out for any of us does it. Also let the jungler call the damn objective calls, if we don't have smite up and their jungler is up it is really not a good idea. Just risking team raeg.

I expect jungler to stop going ham and feeding my lane double buff

Yes, that always sucks when I'm laning and the jungler ganks and just dies. THANKS FOR MAKING MY LANE WAY HARDER. IT HAPPENS though, sometimes through misunderstandings or miscommunication, and it's not over yet. Unless you vigorously pinged them to gtfo, you wanted to make the gank work too. Tell them it's not worth it firmly, and to wait for later when there's a better chance. They'll understand and farm their jungle, which is what they really want to do anyways. Or they'll walk somewhere else and find a better gank elsewhere.

I expect jungler to ward their jungle if they are getting counter jungled

I think this is a collaborative effort. Mid should probably buy two wards, and that covers two entrances, and then we've got tribush at top or bot covered, that leaves one entrance and warding your buffs for the jungler.


I expect jungler to help multiple lanes not just one

This depends on how each lane is doing and how important it is to feed certain champs/not let certain enemies get fed. In an ideal situation the jungler snowballs all lanes. Sometimes, what ends up happening is that we need to go with the lane that we can actually snowball and hope that's enough to help us win a couple teamfights/win a couple guerilla tactics battles to get everyone else in the game again.

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#18TheSteelPhoenixPosted 3/11/2013 4:15:27 AM
dennis941012 posted...
From: TheSteelPhoenix | #008
Yes. For me, the interesting part is WHY people feel so entitled.



Just stick in there, its one of the few fun positions IMO.


why am I not entitled to jungler being worth something?
I expect junglers to gank my lane if I am pushed/camped
or atleast ward my lane if I am getting camped and zoned out with lack of gold
I also expect jungler to smite everything perfectly
I expect jungler to stop going ham and feeding my lane double buff
I expect jungler to ward their jungle if they are getting counter jungled
I expect jungler to help multiple lanes not just one


If you want a jungler to gank, you need at least some of these things:

1. Have your lane at LEAST half way. A lot of strong jungle picks these days can secure ganks if the enemy is half way or more, but less than that, and one flash and they are totally safe. If you shove it up against the turret, the jungler if he is smart will NOT come to your lane, ever, and for good reason, because he either needs to tax you (which he wouldn't need if a gank worked), or just walk away with nothing but wasted time.

2. Pick a character that can at least attempt to help with the gank ,or just have exhaust.

3. Have you forced your lane to burn it's flash? I cannot stand it when I get to a lane only for them to flash away. There are many characters that can make plays that force people to burn flash, pick them.

If you can at least have ONE of those fulfilled, the jungler will now enter ganking your lane into his decision matrix. In case you never jungled, or never talked to a jungler who knew what they were doing, here are some things they are also worried about, depending on the time of the game.

1. Buff control
2. Dragon control
3. counter jungling and being counter jungled (i.e. enemy jungler)
4. the other 2 lanes and their players
5. all three lanes enemy players
6. their own needs to perform their functions in a team fight (as in, their own gold), and not feeding the enemy.

Here are some things that will just make sure you never get help.

1.Fed enemy
2.Pushing against their tower
3.You are underpowered (can't CS, die a lot, goes hand and hand with fed enemy, but not the same).
4. Camped because you won't ward. You are never so gold starved you can't keep a ward up. EVER. If you buy things other then wards and you are being camped, that's your problem, and you aren't bringing the jungler down with you.
5. Another lane has an easy gank.

Granted you can't really control number 5, but in theory it means you should be AT LEAST capable of farming infront of your turret and not feeding, cause in the team fight your going to have a jungler and other lane fed like crazy
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#19sonic_rockzPosted 3/11/2013 4:35:13 AM
Bhellium posted...
it's most annoying when you're blamed for someone losing lane because you had to babysit two others


This, my God. Gangplank does not counter Wukong, now shut up and let me try and salvage 0-6 bot lane.
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#20awwwSNAPPosted 3/11/2013 6:00:24 AM
dennis941012 posted...


why am I not entitled to jungler being worth something?
I expect junglers to gank my lane if I am pushed/camped
or atleast ward my lane if I am getting camped and zoned out with lack of gold
I also expect jungler to smite everything perfectly
I expect jungler to stop going ham and feeding my lane double buff
I expect jungler to ward their jungle if they are getting counter jungled
I expect jungler to help multiple lanes not just one



I can't tell how much of this is serious, but to address the ward issue - if you are losing your lane so badly you can't afford a ward, you're probably far enough behind that a gank will just get you killed. And if you're just unwilling to ward, dont be surprised when your jungler is unwilling to gank