How to top?

#1Lord_WoobiePosted 3/26/2013 10:14:55 AM
I haven't gone top much since S3 started, and now it seems like every time I go am pigeonholed into playing that role I can build either damage or tankiness, but not both. Just for some context, my usual top is either Jayce or Kennen.

When I build damage I can reasonably zone my lane opponent and outfarm them without pushing the lane overly much, but I almost always get camped by the enemy jungler, regardless of how many wards I place. On the other hand, my jungler usually ignores my lane and I can't usually get kills on my lane opponent without their help. And of course, in the event that I die to a gank I start to lose the lane and can't make a comeback even with farm. Come late game I can affect team fights with damage, but I'm not much of a tank.

When I go tanky I can still farm reasonably well, but my harass never forces the opponent out of lane, which seems to be very much the point of going top. I can't pressure my lane enough to ever really get a solid advantage, and again, I can't kill my opponent without my jungler because we both build tanky (and again, my jungler usually ignores my lane...). Come late game I can contribute to team fights, but I feel guilty because I was never able to prevent the enemy top from being equally relevant.

TL;DR - How do you play top lane so that you don't rely on your jungler to get yourself a clear advantage?
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#2Darkyellow327Posted 3/26/2013 10:29:40 AM(edited)
If you're getting camped, that should be a big signal for your jungler to push another lane hard and punish the other team for camping you.

Edit: You can build Jayce pretty tanky and still hit like a truck.
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#3ezekiel702Posted 3/26/2013 10:19:47 AM
Ward and not be bad?
#4centurion911Posted 3/26/2013 10:24:13 AM
Kennen and Jayce don't have harass that is so potent that their opponent has to cower in fear. Their harass is safe and constant which is why you will get camped a lot (constant harass=opponent gets zoned=wave pushes=ganks on you).

For both, building damage tends to be the way to go with a couple of side notes. For Kennen, getting his Zhonias before teamfight phase is very important. R+Zhonias=teamfight win. He only really needs a Giants belt for his Rylais to make himself tanky enough for midgame.

Jayce should build a tear (more E--->Q Cannon form harass and, with Muramana, his W in cannon form hits like a truck). Again, Giants belt should be enough to make it into midgame. Make Warmogs your 2nd or 3rd item completed if you need more tankiness.

Basically just keep harassing with them. They're not high kill potential champs, they're meant to zone their opponent and crush their lane.
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#5Lord_Woobie(Topic Creator)Posted 3/26/2013 10:24:36 AM
ezekiel702 posted...
Ward and not be bad?


Lord_Woobie posted...
but I almost always get camped by the enemy jungler, regardless of how many wards I place.


K.
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On the field of honor, the gods bearing witness to my glory, I will pull your entrails through your eyes and use them as reins to ride your soul to hades below!
#6C_Dub7Posted 3/26/2013 10:27:02 AM
Power, technique, and speed are all important factors.
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#7MIG297Posted 3/26/2013 10:27:16 AM
Sounds like you're building Jayce and Kennen wrong tbh. Would suggest checking out some guides on solomid.

Not played Jayce much but Kennen has an easy time building tanky and keeping his damage up since Zhonya's and Rylai's are core on him.
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#8Lord_Woobie(Topic Creator)Posted 3/26/2013 10:29:41 AM
MIG297 posted...
Sounds like you're building Jayce and Kennen wrong tbh. Would suggest checking out some guides on solomid.

Not played Jayce much but Kennen has an easy time building tanky and keeping his damage up since Zhonya's and Rylai's are core on him.


I always, always, always rush Zhonya's on Kennen, but I can never make my opponent leave the lane unless it's to buy something.
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On the field of honor, the gods bearing witness to my glory, I will pull your entrails through your eyes and use them as reins to ride your soul to hades below!
#9albinorhino004Posted 3/26/2013 10:38:34 AM
Practice never giving up deaths.

Practice out playing your opponent early (red potions own people so hard).

Make the top camp ineffective by not giving up deaths. If they take your tower you have more saftey to catch up with cs. Look up your gpm on elophant and practice getting better (or calculate it yourself)

Play other tops besides jayce and kennen so you have more understanding of what your opponents do. Practice can be rewarding if you let it be
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#10Rookie_JetPosted 3/26/2013 10:40:58 AM
Lord_Woobie posted...
MIG297 posted...
Sounds like you're building Jayce and Kennen wrong tbh. Would suggest checking out some guides on solomid.

Not played Jayce much but Kennen has an easy time building tanky and keeping his damage up since Zhonya's and Rylai's are core on him.


I always, always, always rush Zhonya's on Kennen, but I can never make my opponent leave the lane unless it's to buy something.


What's your skill order (I like to max W)? And are you landing your Qs? If you can mark them with the 5th AA or a Q and W them, they should be getting pretty scared after the 3rd or 4th one. That puts them in position to die from your all-in combo.

Kennen's a very safe laner. If you have wards far enough in the river and tri brush to see a gank coming, you can safely use your E to quickly reposition for a good Q or 5th AA then W and back off. Kennen is a poke master. Take advantage of it.

The only time I could see this not working is if your opponent is smart enough to start null mantle or rush neg cloak on first b.