I know Talon is viewed as underpowered but hear me out.

#21happyscrub1Posted 4/4/2013 12:10:36 PM
Darkyellow327 posted...
InNox534 posted...
Zed is better than Talon?

Win rates tell a different story.

Pre nerf Talon had the highest win rate in the game mere months ago, post nerf Talon still has a commanding win rate over Zed.


Zed has a higher skill cap. Positioning 2 things in a fight is a lot harder than positioning 1.


Zed winrates are horrible even in the high elo. High elo can't fill skill cap?
---
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSIx7UwJjks
Enough picking on kids, back to 9-11
#22Kenji MurasamePosted 4/4/2013 12:18:48 PM
Talon just maximize AD, maybe get some hitpoints.

The problem with new Talon, and I still do well with him as I had enough practice, is his laning is too weak.
I don't know how to solve this with builds, rake just needs to be better.
#23HarvestMoonMan5(Topic Creator)Posted 4/4/2013 1:07:35 PM
You build BoTRK because the active works really well on talon. Additionally it synergizes so well with his passive to have a little extra attackspeed for damage output during your crowd control.
---
I've come to realize that the average IQ of most League Of Legends players is well below 50
#24xRustySpoonPosted 4/4/2013 1:19:02 PM
From: HarvestMoonMan5 | #023
You build BoTRK because the active works really well on talon. Additionally it synergizes so well with his passive to have a little extra attackspeed for damage output during your crowd control.


You still have not explained to me why building BoRK is better than BT when you have a 1.3 ratio on your Q, a 1.2 ratio on your W, and a 1.5 ratio on your R. Keep in mind that these are all Bonus AD ratios.

Building BoRK on Talon is like building BoRK on Riven or something. It's absolutely terrible in comparison to BT.
---
Get dumpstered.
LoL/Steam: xRustySpoon Follow these tips and you'll be fraggin' like a pro.
#25Darkyellow327Posted 4/4/2013 1:30:31 PM
happyscrub1 posted...
Darkyellow327 posted...
InNox534 posted...
Zed is better than Talon?

Win rates tell a different story.

Pre nerf Talon had the highest win rate in the game mere months ago, post nerf Talon still has a commanding win rate over Zed.


Zed has a higher skill cap. Positioning 2 things in a fight is a lot harder than positioning 1.


Zed winrates are horrible even in the high elo. High elo can't fill skill cap?


Uh yeah. Even high ELO does not equal pro players.
---
Not changing my sig until Soulja Boy challenges me to a rap battle
#26VegerunksPosted 4/4/2013 8:00:00 PM
EnricoMarini01 posted...
darkwing1232 posted...
The only reason he's not used more is because hes so expensive and people would rather play other 6300 instead. He a really good counter AP mid.


Expensive has nothing to do with it. I'm surprised that people actually bring it up :/

Zed just brings a lot more to the table. He's energy dependent, so he's almost impossible to completely neuter farming wise (compared to talon) he has a blink, making him nigh ungankeable, his ult even gives him invincibility frames and boosts his damage by up to 50% of everything he's dealt.

He's just a lot better at straight up assassinating people, whether they be AD, AP or anything at all. If he ults somehtijng, they're probably dead.

Not saying Talon is bad, but Zed is just better if you're looking for what assassins can do; kill people.


You say Zed's Ult is good but it does 0 damage until its 3 seconds or whatever are up, and then its just extra damage according to what he did after starting it. If he gets insta stunned after ulting he's screwed.

Talon has an ability that boosts all damage he does for 2 seconds by 30% IIRC Anyone that has used both know Talon is much better as an assassin than Zed. Not to mention Zed's ult is wasted if you cleanse it which is soooo great. I've had a talon and Zed in the same match before we were both fully built and I nuked Zed before he could cast any abilities because of the 2 second damage boost+Silence.
---
Xbox 360 GamerTag: HolyKnight22
PSN: CrimsonDivide
#27EnricoMarini01Posted 4/5/2013 7:11:22 PM
Vegerunks posted...
EnricoMarini01 posted...
darkwing1232 posted...
The only reason he's not used more is because hes so expensive and people would rather play other 6300 instead. He a really good counter AP mid.


Expensive has nothing to do with it. I'm surprised that people actually bring it up :/

Zed just brings a lot more to the table. He's energy dependent, so he's almost impossible to completely neuter farming wise (compared to talon) he has a blink, making him nigh ungankeable, his ult even gives him invincibility frames and boosts his damage by up to 50% of everything he's dealt.

He's just a lot better at straight up assassinating people, whether they be AD, AP or anything at all. If he ults somehtijng, they're probably dead.

Not saying Talon is bad, but Zed is just better if you're looking for what assassins can do; kill people.


You say Zed's Ult is good but it does 0 damage until its 3 seconds or whatever are up, and then its just extra damage according to what he did after starting it. If he gets insta stunned after ulting he's screwed.

Talon has an ability that boosts all damage he does for 2 seconds by 30% IIRC Anyone that has used both know Talon is much better as an assassin than Zed. Not to mention Zed's ult is wasted if you cleanse it which is soooo great. I've had a talon and Zed in the same match before we were both fully built and I nuked Zed before he could cast any abilities because of the 2 second damage boost+Silence.


You can't cleanse out of Zed ult. Of course Talon beats Zed if you jump him first. Silence owns cs someone who's a caster.

I don't know what you're arguing tbh. The only thig I said is that Zed has a much better chance of assassinating someone due to his high burst + pop on ult, while being nigh ungankeable, energy based and 0 problems last hitting even with no AD.

They both assassinate people, but Zed simply has a much higher burst than Talon.

If he gets stunned after he Ults, of course he's not gonna do damage, but anyone stunned in THEIR combo does no damage as well. Talon stunned after cutthroat dies, like how Zed who Ults dies too.

It's simply that he's arguably a better laner, and better single target burst. Talon is still good. He can still wreck AP mods as assassinate carries, but tbh, I'd pretty much have Zed on my team, because I know he'll rock laning with shurikens, easy wave clear, and easy escapes even after he all ins.
---
"Speculation is not hard evidence; it is the refuge of those who cannot prove their point."
~ ArtosRC
#28albinorhino004Posted 4/5/2013 8:12:01 PM(edited)
Thirster
Cleaver (hydra/bork)
Whisper
Mobo
Guardian angel (hydra/bork)
Schimitar (more important than GA for talon IMO)

Play big and play to win the game or lose it late.

As for zed vs talon

Zed's ult is easily punishable by any reposition/cc.

Talon's ult is countered by any vision, and the same things that counter zed's ult.

Comes down to players reacting faster than other players.. SO

Zed is cool for out playing people with shadows, Talon is more straight forward. IMO if you trust you awareness talon is very good for winning games (mostly because all of his escape is tied to his ult)
---
drinking is very bad
#29AmarajahPosted 4/5/2013 10:47:43 PM(edited)
From: Darkyellow327 | #025
happyscrub1 posted...
Darkyellow327 posted...
InNox534 posted...
Zed is better than Talon?

Win rates tell a different story.

Pre nerf Talon had the highest win rate in the game mere months ago, post nerf Talon still has a commanding win rate over Zed.


Zed has a higher skill cap. Positioning 2 things in a fight is a lot harder than positioning 1.


Zed winrates are horrible even in the high elo. High elo can't fill skill cap?


Uh yeah. Even high ELO does not equal pro players.


Then that means he's not that good to most of us since most of us won't be playing tournament games ?

Not that I agree with that statement, but that's basically what you're saying with that statement. Why would mid elo players be able to play a champion to perfection better than high ?

Basically I just agree with the statement that DEDICATED zed players can be really solid with him and do some great things, but his skill cap is not as high as people make it seem. Compared to talon he's probably better at full potential right now just cause they toned down talons bleed and ult QUITE a bit, as well as made his favorite item black cleaver not as good.
#30VegerunksPosted 4/9/2013 1:35:22 PM
Amarajah posted...
From: Darkyellow327 | #025
happyscrub1 posted...
Darkyellow327 posted...
InNox534 posted...
Zed is better than Talon?

Win rates tell a different story.

Pre nerf Talon had the highest win rate in the game mere months ago, post nerf Talon still has a commanding win rate over Zed.


Zed has a higher skill cap. Positioning 2 things in a fight is a lot harder than positioning 1.


Zed winrates are horrible even in the high elo. High elo can't fill skill cap?


Uh yeah. Even high ELO does not equal pro players.


Then that means he's not that good to most of us since most of us won't be playing tournament games ?

Not that I agree with that statement, but that's basically what you're saying with that statement. Why would mid elo players be able to play a champion to perfection better than high ?

Basically I just agree with the statement that DEDICATED zed players can be really solid with him and do some great things, but his skill cap is not as high as people make it seem. Compared to talon he's probably better at full potential right now just cause they toned down talons bleed and ult QUITE a bit, as well as made his favorite item black cleaver not as good.


You realize they didn't nerf talon but they buffed him right? His E didn't cause any bonus damage before the "nerf" So he had a huge damage buff rather than a small damage nerf.
---
Xbox 360 GamerTag: HolyKnight22
PSN: CrimsonDivide