Couple of Support-ish questions.

#1SW_FFXIfanPosted 4/11/2013 8:11:53 AM
I have not been playing much in the past few months but am starting to play more and have a few questions I am having trouble with.

With the new support items when should you build what?
Mostly I go locket/shurelyia's then Aegis. What should I build if I have a locket and someone else already went bulwark?

Is the crucible viable? I have not seen it around in tournaments at all I don't think.

What are you supposed to do against a jungle diving hecarim? Was Lulu/Cait against a sona/vayne and we were beating them in lane at the beginning in kills and cs but then hecarim just kept diving us. He went mobility boots and I had a ward at our tri and in front of dragon but he just runs down megafast and destroys us. What are you supposed to do against him? Our jungler was udyr and did not have much presence throughout the game.

Sorry it's kind of unorganized. Any help/suggestions are appreciated thanks!
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#2King of CatsPosted 4/11/2013 8:36:19 AM
From: SW_FFXIfan | Posted: 4/11/2013 11:11:53 AM | #001
Is the crucible viable?


Depends a lot on team comps and your own reaction speed.
Like, enemy support is Taric, he tosses a stun at your carry.
You slap that away with Crucible, and your carry kills their carry who rushed in to make use of the stun that no longer applies.
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#3ZedPowerPosted 4/11/2013 9:01:02 AM(edited)
I tried to like Crucible a bunch, really really tried to, but it's incredibly hard to use and just not that great. The worst about it is the projectile travel time on the cleanse, which is ridiculous. Honestly, if you end up with a Chalice on a support (like if you're fed and playing one of the more mana hungry ones like Sona or Nami maybe), turn it into Unholy Grail instead. You'll get way more mileage from the AP and CDR than from the Crucible active.

As for Hecarim, save some CC for him and play safe if you don't know where he is. Watch if he gets predictable, if he always comes from the same direction or something, and try to use that against him. Cait especially can ruin Hec's day because a trap in the right place completely ruins his momentum. It's kind of a shame that your Udyr back then didn't do much, because early game a decent Udyr would just go sit on Hecarim's face and grind him into the dirt. Hec's 1v1 ability is really really bad.

If you have a Locket, and the Aegis is out of the question, look at your team and see if they could use Zeke's or WotA. it's hard to go wrong with aura items in general. Even a Frozen Heart is pretty good if no one else is picking it up. Failing that, bulk up, pick up some health or resists; a lot of people don't realize when supports are tankier than usual and will focus them anyway. Many supports are pretty good with a Liandry's when they're fed. And it's actually not the end of the world if there are two Bulwarks on the same team!

Neat thing with supports is that as long as the map is warded, they're free to buy pretty much anything, since they don't actually really need anything. So feel comfortable trying new stuff if you think it'll help. Pay attention, be flexible, and you'll do fine.
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#4SW_FFXIfan(Topic Creator)Posted 4/11/2013 10:00:15 AM
Thanks for the advice. Even with saving CC for Hec it doesn't stop him much....

Cait did not make great use of her traps though.
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#5albinorhino004Posted 4/11/2013 10:12:16 AM
The best thing against a dive is to just back off until they lose interest or take your tower =(

Ward farther away so you can have a better idea of where they are coming from.

As for items, this is what I generally do.

Start charm/bead six item start. I usually FB sight stone, picking up a couple of pinks if I can (or finish philo). From there I grab philo then ruby (always buying a couple pinks).

From there I usually pick up mobo/oracle, grab runic or locket (depending on whats been bought), and start spamming sight wards. I always try to carry oracles and five wards in addition to my sight stone. Last buys are usually captains enchantment and reverie.

Crucible is situational. Kages items are situational. Zekes is situational. All I've ever felt I needed to support is oracles/ruby/vision wards/captains mobo/runic(locket)/reverie.
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#6albinorhino004Posted 4/11/2013 10:24:29 AM
More clarification since I feel I suck at communication.

If they have a healing based champ I will get an early kages and upgrade it to morello's later.

I'll grab shard earlyish if it has synergy with my team and I'm especially fed
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#7Suffer_NotPosted 4/11/2013 10:46:17 AM
From: SW_FFXIfan | #001
I have not been playing much in the past few months but am starting to play more and have a few questions I am having trouble with.

With the new support items when should you build what?
Mostly I go locket/shurelyia's then Aegis. What should I build if I have a locket and someone else already went bulwark?

Is the crucible viable? I have not seen it around in tournaments at all I don't think.

What are you supposed to do against a jungle diving hecarim? Was Lulu/Cait against a sona/vayne and we were beating them in lane at the beginning in kills and cs but then hecarim just kept diving us. He went mobility boots and I had a ward at our tri and in front of dragon but he just runs down megafast and destroys us. What are you supposed to do against him? Our jungler was udyr and did not have much presence throughout the game.

Sorry it's kind of unorganized. Any help/suggestions are appreciated thanks!

For the new items, you build what your team needs most when they need it. For example, let's say your team is having trouble initiating. Your Xin Zhao can jump on people, but the enemy team has enough peel and disengage that they can kite and kill Xin before your team can really take advantage of the opportunity he creates. I would recommend building Reverie and Shard of True Ice; Reverie helps your team respond to initiation, and Shard helps your diver stick to targets and draw them out.

Let's say that instead your team is having trouble pushing lanes and split pushing in general. Consider buying Emblem of Valor, especially if someone on your team already has an Aegis. You can also purchase the Captain's Boots upgrade, which will increase the movement speed of allies that are moving in your direction by 8% and minions moving in your direction by 20%. When paired with Mobility Boots, it's a noticeable boost in your team's mobility at the cost of being twice as expensive as Homeguard...

If your team is trying to siege enemy towers, consider Morellonomicon. Even if they don't have a dedicated healer, cutting the health regen of the enemy's Warmogs is still extremely valuable. Another strong item for tower sieging is Ohmwrecker; it's rare that you'll have the money to afford it, but it's an effective counter to champions like Anivia that can completely demolish a minion wave by giving you the edge you need to kill the tower/dive the enemy team.


In 80% of your supports you won't have that much money for any of those. Ever. You build is going to be Sightstone/Philo/Boots/Ruby Sightstone/Mobos/Aegis/Reverie and the game will probably end sometime around you getting Kindlegem. For games that last longer, consider what your team does not have that you can buy and you should be fine.
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#8SW_FFXIfan(Topic Creator)Posted 4/11/2013 10:56:16 AM
Supports not going mercs/cd boots as much now?

It was considered a bit bad to go mobility boots before on support wasnt it?
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#9Suffer_NotPosted 4/11/2013 11:09:09 AM
From: SW_FFXIfan | #008
Supports not going mercs/cd boots as much now?

It was considered a bit bad to go mobility boots before on support wasnt it?

Well, at the beginning of Season 2 Mercs/Tabi were the boots to get. Everyone got those on supports because becoming tanky in the mid game for that bot tower/dragon push was a big deal.

The meta has kind of shifted since then. Now, mobility is a huge deal. A HUGE deal. Being able to quickly respond to threats on your mid tower/other objectives, as well as being able to quickly replace wards and maintain map coverage, is far more important than reducing C on you by 35%.

CDR Boots are still a toss up. Some people will say that they are useless because early game you don't have the mana to take advantage of lower cooldowns, while late game you have too many other items that give CDR to be wasting a boot slot on it. Other people will say that the mid game advantage of suddenly getting that much CDR is far too significant to sacrifice for late game power, considering that most supports will not acquire enough gold to be purchasing CDR until far too late in the game for it to matter.

I'm sort of in the first camp. CDR Boots work if you rush Chalice as well, but I feel that it's a lot of money being devoted to a build that is really only significant in the lane phase and early team fights. Otherwise I feel it puts you too far behind.
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I'm actually incredibly overly passionate and...whats the word...viscous? - EltoniaX