Are they gonna nerf TF? He's a top ban and pick in tournies.

#31Black_AssassinPosted 4/23/2013 3:07:03 AM
YourJanissary posted...
Constant balance patches in an attempt to gain perfect balance is an ideal. it is not an ideal that is likely to succeed, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be strived for. Even if we obtained perfect balance, we could continue releasing patches that seek to maintain balance but change how balance is achieved. All people want is for a game to not stagnate. Imbalance is not the solution, it is simply a product of changing how the game is played.

If you want proof that imbalance does not mean a game will no longer stagnate in strategy, look at warcraft 3. The game hasn't received a patch in forever yet the strategies used by players have all stagnated and the game is more or less decided. Orcs are the best, undead are the worst, and every game you will see people attempting the same strategies because they work and other strategies do not. There is no room left for exploration in warcraft 3. Active patching has completed. Imbalance did not save the game: it was saved only so long as the developers continued to try to change it and bring it closer to perfect balance.

What do you think about Starcraft: Brood War?
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#32Bagel_BearPosted 4/23/2013 3:29:57 AM
From: qqaaxx | #030
Lowered range on ult


I liked it back when he could go across the whole map :(
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#33YourJanissaryPosted 4/23/2013 7:46:17 AM
Black_Assassin posted...
What do you think about Starcraft: Brood War?


Brood War stopped receiving patches to alter the gameplay. Naturally, the game has stagnated now and strategies don't really continue to develop.

If you want to know how I would handle revitalizing BW, I would do one of the following:

-Add new units and buildings
-Change the stats of current units to change which strategies are considered strong while maintaining the balance between the three races.
-Buff the weak units so that an even greater number of strategies are viable in each matchup.
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#34Black_AssassinPosted 4/23/2013 8:52:53 AM(edited)
YourJanissary posted...
-Buff the weak units so that an even greater number of strategies are viable in each matchup.

Pretty much every unit was utilized, with the exception of Scouts. There were even some Queen based builds devised to counter Terran mech, even in 2011-2012, IIRC. I wouldn't call BW a stagnated game, strategy-wise.
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#35YourJanissaryPosted 4/23/2013 4:16:21 PM
Black_Assassin posted...
YourJanissary posted...
-Buff the weak units so that an even greater number of strategies are viable in each matchup.

Pretty much every unit was utilized, with the exception of Scouts. There were even some Queen based builds devised to counter Terran mech, even in 2011-2012, IIRC. I wouldn't call BW a stagnated game, strategy-wise.


Has the game really changed in that time? Valks, devourers, BCs (albeit they showed up from time to time in terran mirrors), firebats, etc. were fairly underutilized. I've also never heard of queens being used outside a couple of experimental games. I stopped really following the pro scene a while back though so if what you say is true then it really is a testament to how open ended a truly balanced game is.
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#36centurion911Posted 4/23/2013 4:17:52 PM
I would imagine it's hard to nerf him correctly without gutting him
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#37Ravid182Posted 4/23/2013 4:38:21 PM
He is hard to nerf and more complicated than the average AP mid. All they can really do is make his ult longer cooldown and shorter range.

The rest of his kit is fine, but hardly anywhere near OP.

His team fight is average, his poke isn't the best [strong but not the best]. He is useful outside his ult but nothing overpowered by any means.

His ult is what makes him strong. He doesn't have to win his lane if he wins everyone else's.

And they have nerfed him quite a few ways, but his ult is still his ult. If you nerf TF you either remake him to be what he was originally designed to be [an ad hybrid or ap champ] or you nerf his ult more and more.

He is a fine champion and you will find many tournies here and there where he is neither banned nor picked in various matches.

He isn't an always pick pick. He just is strong.

Personally, and I know everyone will laugh, I play jungle TF. I played him a fair bit in season 2 and he was fun but had some glaring weaknesses.

In the season 3 jungle he is SUPER BUFFED compared to what he was before in the jungle.
#38Black_AssassinPosted 4/23/2013 5:08:47 PM
YourJanissary posted...
Has the game really changed in that time? Valks, devourers, BCs (albeit they showed up from time to time in terran mirrors), firebats, etc. were fairly underutilized. I've also never heard of queens being used outside a couple of experimental games. I stopped really following the pro scene a while back though so if what you say is true then it really is a testament to how open ended a truly balanced game is.

I forgot about devourers to be honest, but Valkyries for example have had usage against muta.

You're right though in that some are rarely seen though, or are very matchup specific.
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