Talk me out of support Sejuani

#11EcchiBakaPosted 5/21/2013 1:12:06 AM
Game Show posted...
KloudtheYoukai posted...

It's not that I don't agree that Sejuani can or cannot support. I just don't want you to. I understand though, trying creative approaches to champions is fun, but when you're jungling you're supporting all lanes instead of one. That brings out the best of Sejuani, not being stuck in lane with some ungrateful ADC who pesters you about ward placement and not taking CS.

This sounds more like an argument to avoid playing support completely


No, everyone else pretty much gave good reasons why Sejuani doesn't fit into the support role, your retorts are actually nothing but unrealistic quips that denounce what support champions can do in the bottom lane. Yea maybe Sej Support can be done with some communication/coordination and no one can really stop you, but don't brainstorm why it's not working out for you in solo queue and why everyone is riding your **** because you aren't performing at the best you can.

The only champion I'd compare Sejuani to in the support role is Leona (or maybe Alistar). Both Sej and Leona bring an aggressive approach to lane. While Leona has a nifty passive to accommodate this approach, a defensive steroid that is upwards to 60+ Def/MRes for 3+ seconds, and 3 forms of hard crowd control to stay on your opponent, Sejuani can not consider this kind of aggressive play in most situations. Her Arctic Assault does knock up now and do a bit of damage but unless you're post-6 you have nothing but slows to stack for your ADC to deal damage. Sejuani's passive only increases her armor by about 5 (or is it 10?) so unless you also have to opt for armor runes and masteries instead of lasting off of GP10s for your income, something she can not get by with. Both her W and E are weak in terms of damage so all-in-all you're doing nothing but providing a bit of CC for your ADC to deal damage but at some huge risks.

Sejuani's matchups against other support champions are not impressive either. She's highly outclassed by Lulu and Janna, gets easily poked down by Sona, you can't push a Soraka from lane, and Thresh/Taric both have easier ways to control how a small skirmish ends out in lane.

Once again, I'm not going to talk you out of Support Sejuani, it's too much work and I enjoy seeing people play Sejuani in other ways that aren't jungle. Fact is you're highly outclassed by doing so and set your lane up for failure. Do what you want.
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#12Black_AssassinPosted 5/21/2013 1:23:53 AM(edited)
Game Show posted...
What makes her different from Taric and Leona?

Taric and Leona have ways to scale without gold. Taric has his stun and ult stat aura, which stay the same regardless of gold spent on items. His W does scale with additional armor though.
Leona has the second best AR/MR steroid in the game, which makes her naturally resilient.

Although the reworked Seju does have the AR/MR from her passive. I wouldn't mind a Seju support, to be honest.

Also by not getting gold to be tanky enough, you lack the possibility to dive into the middle of the enemy team for AoE slows. You might find yourself to be more of a peeler for squishies in that case.

Often you can check if a champion is suitable for a support by checking if he needs gold or not. CC, auras or free stats all stay the same regardless of gold spent on them (excluding CDR). Zyra for example is played a lot in the support role because of her AoE two second snare. Fiddle support can work because he has a point and click three second hard CC.
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#13Game Show(Topic Creator)Posted 5/21/2013 1:20:04 AM
Master_striker posted...
Taric offers great auras, a point and click stun that's an amazing dis/engage and a heal, all that without having to leave his ADC's side.

Leona's passive turn her into a dangerous initiator early on and with her W, she doesn't need to buy resist items to actually be able to tank.

Sejuani is booty early, she doesn't offer much, no auras, no damage, no tankyness. She's just there, the enemy laner can just ignore her and go straight for the ADC.

It sakes sej a lot of $$$ before being useful.

You make great points about Taric and Leona. However I disagree that Sej can be ignored by virtue of her crowd control. I'm actually not really sure about her damage potential, since when I jungle as her I build straight tank, so at least for my playstyle there wouldn't be much damage difference jungle vs support

Also Sej does get an armor boost from her passive (didn't even know that), though she does need to be doing damage (AA or abilities) to get it
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#14Game Show(Topic Creator)Posted 5/24/2013 5:58:27 PM
Black_Assassin posted...
Taric and Leona have ways to scale without gold. Taric has his stun and ult stat aura, which stay the same regardless of gold spent on items. His W does scale with additional armor though.
Leona has the second best AR/MR steroid in the game, which makes her naturally resilient.

Fair arguments, their natural defenses are very strong. I'm starting to wonder about people's perceptions and expectations from Sej vs Taric/Leona though. Given the same amount of gold, are they simply better tanks than Sej? If they're that effective without gold, then what if they did have that gold?
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#15Game Show(Topic Creator)Posted 5/24/2013 6:00:08 PM
KloudtheYoukai posted...
No, everyone else pretty much gave good reasons why Sejuani doesn't fit into the support role, your retorts are actually nothing but unrealistic quips that denounce what support champions can do in the bottom lane.

Don't think you know what "quip" means, I've been asking legitimate questions and providing my honest opinions about the subject. Your posts prior to this, have been literally "No" and then paraphrasing "don't do it cause she's better in the jungle and adcs will complain at you if you're support". Not exactly compelling arguments

Yea maybe Sej Support can be done with some communication/coordination and no one can really stop you, but don't brainstorm why it's not working out for you in solo queue

Why not brainstorm? I thought it could work, now I'm seeing what the GF community says. It's not "why can't I do it", cause I know I can play any role with any champion at any time. It's "how does this champion fare at performing a role that these other seemingly similar champions do well at"

and why everyone is riding your **** because you aren't performing at the best you can.

Not sure where this is coming from, I said it's been going decently and nobody has complained to this point

The only champion I'd compare Sejuani to in the support role is Leona (or maybe Alistar). Both Sej and Leona bring an aggressive approach to lane. While Leona has a nifty passive to accommodate this approach, a defensive steroid that is upwards to 60+ Def/MRes for 3+ seconds, and 3 forms of hard crowd control to stay on your opponent, Sejuani can not consider this kind of aggressive play in most situations. Her Arctic Assault does knock up now and do a bit of damage but unless you're post-6 you have nothing but slows to stack for your ADC to deal damage. Sejuani's passive only increases her armor by about 5 (or is it 10?) so unless you also have to opt for armor runes and masteries instead of lasting off of GP10s for your income, something she can not get by with. Both her W and E are weak in terms of damage so all-in-all you're doing nothing but providing a bit of CC for your ADC to deal damage but at some huge risks.

What are Leona's 3 hard crowd control? There's the conditional ult stun (which Sej has), and the W stun... are you counting the dash? Cause Sej basically has that too

I acknowledge that her natural defenses aren't as good as Taric and Leona. However, I don't understand the damage argument when they aren't big damage dealers either, not including Leona's passive since others will be taking more advantage of that than Leona herself

Once again, I'm not going to talk you out of Support Sejuani, it's too much work and I enjoy seeing people play Sejuani in other ways that aren't jungle. Fact is you're highly outclassed by doing so and set your lane up for failure. Do what you want.

I find it strange that you say you're not going to talk me out of it and then continue your paragraph with being "outclassed and setting up for failure". I can't tell if it's you being passive-aggressive or, considering some of your earlier comments, if English comprehension simply isn't your forte
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#16Badmood136Posted 5/24/2013 6:30:22 PM(edited)
Game Show posted...
What are Leona's 3 hard crowd control? There's the conditional ult stun (which Sej has), and the W stun... are you counting the dash? Cause Sej basically has that too


Leona's Q is a 1.25s stun.
Her E (dash) has a 0.5s snare incorporated into it.
Her ult is a 1.5s stun/slow.

Leona can stop an enemy from moving for 2.75 seconds.

Sej's Q is a 1(?) second knockup.
Her ult is a 2s AoE stun/slow.

Sej can stop her target from moving for up to 3 seconds and slow for an additional 3 seconds after that. [However as a side note, Sej only has 1 second of hard cc pre-6 and her slow only scales up to "I can barely move" if you put points into it and even then, only around Lv.9.

Edit: To add onto that, the added tankiness from Leona's W (70 AR/MR) allow her to stand in the middle of the enemy team without vaporizing while only having Support gold. Sej only gets 25 armor by late-game from her passive, which isn't nearly enough to keep her from getting shredded if all she has for defense is sightstone and a bulwark.
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#17leak_manPosted 5/24/2013 6:36:36 PM
Taric and Leona also enhance their carry's damage, by way of the former's ult aura and armor shred, and the latter's passive.
#18xVashTS98xPosted 5/24/2013 7:08:17 PM
Badmood136 posted...
Game Show posted...
What are Leona's 3 hard crowd control? There's the conditional ult stun (which Sej has), and the W stun... are you counting the dash? Cause Sej basically has that too


Leona's Q is a 1.25s stun.
Her E (dash) has a 0.5s snare incorporated into it.
Her ult is a 1.5s stun/slow.

Leona can stop an enemy from moving for 2.75 seconds.

Sej's Q is a 1(?) second knockup.
Her ult is a 2s AoE stun/slow.

Sej can stop her target from moving for up to 3 seconds and slow for an additional 3 seconds after that. [However as a side note, Sej only has 1 second of hard cc pre-6 and her slow only scales up to "I can barely move" if you put points into it and even then, only around Lv.9.

Edit: To add onto that, the added tankiness from Leona's W (70 AR/MR) allow her to stand in the middle of the enemy team without vaporizing while only having Support gold. Sej only gets 25 armor by late-game from her passive, which isn't nearly enough to keep her from getting shredded if all she has for defense is sightstone and a bulwark.


Besides using Sej's ult, I would use the rest of my kit to peel for my carries (as a support, or as a jungler who had a bad game). Knock Up and a real good, long slow is ideal for keeping people where you want them.

I can see how she is comparable to Leona (and maybe Taric) in lane, but I think she should primarily be a peeler in teamfights.
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