It's not worth it to use some ADC abilities in fights late game

#1PrintScreenKeyPosted 7/5/2013 11:58:52 AM
Many people want to take into account ADC abilities into ADC damage. But sometimes abilities only lower your damage output.
Also, abilities have invisible cast times such as Sivir's ultimate. She has to stop to use it and there is no information on the tooltip about these invisible times.

Let's look at abilities which have specified cast times.

Caitlyn example

She does approx. 1050 dps with autos late game with a standard BT/IE/PD/LW build including headshots.

Should you be using her ult?
Bonus AD = 30 masteries & runes, 40 lw, 70 ie + 100 bt.
ult = 700 + 200% bonus AD = 1180 dmg

You might be thinking amazing let's use Caitlyns ult in a fight because it has a one-second cast time and does more damage than auto attacking.

But what you're not taking into consideration is that when you use her ult you cant auto. Autoattacking allows you to move inbetween shots and also lifesteal health. Her ult makes her sit still for the entire 1 second duration.

The only good thing about it is the range. Can use it before or after a fight.

what about peacemaker?
same as her ult. If you use it u cant auto for one second.

Does 180 + 130% ad to the first target and down to 50%.
One target 623 dmg
it's only worth using if you line up the entire enemy team and hit them all without any dmg reduction from minions.
5champs in a straight line 2492 dmg.
But it's not worth using for one target.

miss fortune example

Her ult has a 2 second channel.
It deals 500 + 140% bonus ad per second.
= 836 dmg to one target in a second
Cannot move while using ult.

Auto attacks
she has approx 1150 dps with autos late game.
Yes she does more than caitlyn because she has a 50% atk speed steroid and a bit of extra on-hit magic dmg.
So as you can see it's not worth using her ult to kill someone late game since you are sacrificing your higher auto attack damage.
It's only good if there are multiple targets or from long distance.

conclusion
One cannot mix auto attacks and spells on top of each other.
They don't always add together perfectly.
Using abilitites can impact on your auto attack damage output.
I know kog cannot use his ultimate and auto attack at the same time.
Using your ultimate inbetween auto attacks will slow his atk rate.

Some people like to add spell damage together to look at burst. This works for veigar since he does his combo fast. But for champions like riven, even if they add up to the same dmg, Riven has to go through the animations which lowers her burst time.

Same concept for ADCs.
Ezreal and Vayne have abilities that you could probably add to their auto attacks to find their true dmg output.
Other ADCs don't have such fast casting abilities and they cannot do the same thing.
#2KirbixPosted 7/5/2013 12:01:58 PM
These are becoming troll topics.

Everyone knows not to use caits Q and to save R for a post-fight "pick them off" move.

And MF's ult is obviously going to be bad if it only hits one target. But a decent MF player hits 3-4.
---
Signatures that consist of quotes are bizarre- you could falsify a quote and no one would know.-Jesus
#3ryanaPosted 7/5/2013 12:04:26 PM
Kirbix posted...
These are becoming troll topics.

Everyone knows not to use caits Q and to save R for a post-fight "pick them off" move.

And MF's ult is obviously going to be bad if it only hits one target. But a decent MF player hits 3-4.


Actually I find it better to just use Caits R before the fight.
#4PrintScreenKey(Topic Creator)Posted 7/5/2013 12:09:33 PM
Kirbix posted...
These are becoming troll topics.

Everyone knows not to use caits Q and to save R for a post-fight "pick them off" move.

And MF's ult is obviously going to be bad if it only hits one target. But a decent MF player hits 3-4.


It's not really a post to tell people to use or not use Cait's abilities.
It's a post to tell people that you cannot just "factor in" abilities to auto attack damage.
Some abilities interfere with the normal auto attack damage process.

So in some cases it is choose the higher between auto attack damage or ability damage.
It's not the case for champs like ezreal who can mystic shot while auto attacking. Or vayne who can tumble and even reset her Auto attack timer.
#5jepaanPosted 7/5/2013 1:37:58 PM
tl;dr
Caitlyn is bad lategame.
---
-
#6Price_Of_FamePosted 7/5/2013 2:23:25 PM
tc makes waaay too many topics.
---
I stan for Arya Stark <3
#7WebBowserPosted 7/5/2013 2:30:19 PM
jepaan posted...
tl;dr
Caitlyn is bad lategame.


once again, you neglect AA range and her escape, which are two things that mere stats really cannot put a value on. Cait has one of the highest AA ranges in the game, and has it available at all points of the game, this makes her one of the safest ADCs in teamfights, making it harder for assassins to dive on her, which is always a good thing given their prominence in the current meta (though honestly, they've always been good).
---
"A thing to know if not it looks in while his memory is done is difficult." Jr.
#8DetriimentPosted 7/5/2013 3:10:14 PM
WebBowser posted...
jepaan posted...
tl;dr
Caitlyn is bad lategame.


once again, you neglect AA range and her escape, which are two things that mere stats really cannot put a value on. Cait has one of the highest AA ranges in the game, and has it available at all points of the game, this makes her one of the safest ADCs in teamfights, making it harder for assassins to dive on her, which is always a good thing given their prominence in the current meta (though honestly, they've always been good).


Yes, but comparatively to other lategame hyper carries (Kog/Vayne/Trist) she pales in comparison.
Hence, "Caitlyn is bad lategame."

Especially trist, who outranges her, out dpses her, and has an escape as well as a disengage (her ult).

No one picks Caitlyn for her lategame potential. They pick her to assert dominance in lane (early game), and for taking towers relatively safely.
---
Enlightened rule by the dead is preferable to the misguided failures of the living. - Kinoc.
LoL IGN: Spicy Curry (Plat)