RiotRaitoYagami on AFK/Leavers

#1DartkunPosted 7/9/2014 6:33:52 AM


"There's been a lot of discussion recently about Leavers/AFKs, and I wanted to jump in and just dump some thoughts. We absolutely agree with players, games shouldn't start when a player fails to connect. We also agree that 4v5s in general are pretty terrible experiences, but there's starting to be a lot of misquoting and misunderstandings going around the forums.

Some players are saying that we wouldn't do any of the proposed "obvious" solutions like restarting a match or some type of heavy penalty queue because of potential abuse. This is false. When we talk about "Prisoner's Island" and separating playerbases or forcing players to play alternative queues with long queue times, we are specifically talking about Prisoner's Island not working well with nuanced, subjective behaviors like whether a player was toxic; this is completely different than a binary behavior like whether a player left a game or not. We're completely fine with some sort of solution that restarts the match or allows an early restart/surrender if there's a player that fails to connect to the game, or DCs in the first few minutes. However, we're not OK with allowing players to leave very late in games and still allow players to all abandon the match with no penalties. These are two very different scenarios. Most games (even DOTA2) still record stats/hand out harsh penalties if you leave after 5 minutes.

For awhile, there was a team (not Player Behavior) at Riot was working on this feature, but they were taken off to work on some other important issues.

To give you some more insight behind the scenes, the Player Behavior team has been working on Team Builder for awhile, and we still have a few things lined up; for example, we have finished designs that we need to implement for Honor to make the system feature complete, and we were also responsible for revamping the Tribunal to make it globally available while also improving some of the known flaws of the system. It's a lot of stuff, and they aren't trivial features so it takes awhile to implement systems that function at the scale League operates at.

However, we've known about Leavers/AFK issues in League for awhile, and have wanted to address it as soon as we can, in-between the larger projects above. Most teams have a big project they are focused on, but also work on "small scope" improvements to the game whenever they can; for example, the Player Behavior team recently worked on an improvement to matchmaking that will drop queue times for high MMR players to ~5 minutes instead of ~30-45 minutes or more--this feature is currently running in Team Builder so if you're high MMR, test it out and give us feedback. If it works well, we'd love to bring it to other queues. We also took some time off Team Builder to look into map issues between Blue/Purple and did a few fixes there to get it into a better state. We worked on these problems ahead of Leavers/AFKs because at the end of the day, they affected a lot more players.

#2Dartkun(Topic Creator)Posted 7/9/2014 6:36:54 AM(edited)
When we look at Leavers/AFKs, we have to look at a few things. As a baseline, how often do Leavers/AFKs happen in games? What about in different queues? What you see is that even with a 5% rate of Leavers/AFKs in games globally across the world, you'll still have players who see up to 50, 60, 70, even 80% of their games have Leavers/AFKs. That's simply statistics and unlucky streaks--with millions of players playing the game, you actually have thousands (even tens of thousands) of players with streaks of games with Leavers/AFKs in all of them. But, globally, the Leaver/AFK rates in League is acceptable (but could be better). In fact, if you look at other MOBAs, you generally find similar Leaver/AFK rates and their forums also have a large number of players complaining about Leavers/AFKs. Feel free to do a poll, or run statistics on the last 10 matches of every player on the forums or game and see what the leave rates are--they will probably surprise most players even though they probably could be better still.

What's interesting is that if you look at Leaver/AFK data, you can see that a % of the Leaves/AFKs are due to hardware issues, ISP issues, or other issues outside of the game's control. There's nothing Riot (or designers in general at any studio) can do to solve those issues. For these types of "external" issues, we'd like to allow players to reconnect or restart matches if a player fails to connect at the start of a game. But, we won't be allowing full resets or restarts if a player "fails to connect" 45 minutes into a match for example.

There's also always room for improvement for Leavers/AFKs that are intentional (the rage quitter). We'd like to improve the LeaverBuster system to be a lot more harsh to these players; there's a few ideas on the table (including forcing them to play with other leavers, reduced IP per game, and other strong penalties like that). Hopefully, this gives you more info on what's going on at Riot regarding Leavers/AFKs, and why it's work that we do want to do. At some point, I'd love to go over the Leaver/AFK data in-depth for League of Legends and talk about how each feature of LeaverBuster affected the numbers, but that'll have to be when I'm not at home typing away.

(Apologies on the brain dump)"

tl;dr: stop your *****ing. The amount of leavers and AFK'rs are the same as any other game. So cry moar.

And yes I understand statistics but every 20 games has one leaver? 5% seems real low.
#3DarkerGreyPosted 7/9/2014 6:49:06 AM
Dartkun posted...
And yes I understand statistics but every 20 games has one leaver? 5% seems real low.

Well, that 5% doesn't apply to the entire game. At low Elo, AFKs are much more often than in high Elo.

That number is not really that far away, I get around one every ten games in normals.
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#4darkmoonbeamPosted 7/9/2014 6:56:19 AM
it sucks that i sometimes get that firewall error bs and i cant join the game and it gets acredited a leave :(

Its not like its my choice ;_;

or is that what drophacking is idk
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#5MakeItSwainPosted 7/9/2014 6:57:23 AM
i dont necessarily agree with the prisoner's island queue.
#6l33t_ninj4_1337Posted 7/9/2014 8:34:12 AM
I think a prisoners island system would be fine as long as it is only for repeat offenders. S*** happens to everybody, so somebody who has to leave a game due to emergency shouldn't be thrown in with a bunch of rage quitters.

But mostly, I think there should be some sort of loss prevention sort of thing for 4v5s where a player disconnected before the game starts, or stop the game from starting to something. Early surrenders would be nice, but that's still a loss and I'd rather not lose LP for things totally out of my control. A bad player, you can compensate for. A missing player means near-constant jungle pressure on all your lanes with little to no counter ganking. You can't carry harder out of that unless you're playing at way lower rank than you should be at.

I recently lost a ranked game due to out top never connecting, and based on how the game went, we would've won pretty handily if we had had a full team.
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#7EphidelPosted 7/9/2014 9:00:00 AM
Thank goodness you were just talking about Lyte. I was going to be so mad if one of them actually named themselves that.
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#8dennis941012Posted 7/9/2014 9:01:42 AM
DarkerGrey posted...
Dartkun posted...
And yes I understand statistics but every 20 games has one leaver? 5% seems real low.

Well, that 5% doesn't apply to the entire game. At low Elo, AFKs are much more often than in high Elo.

That number is not really that far away, I get around one every ten games in normals.

15% seems more accurate
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#9refmonPosted 7/9/2014 10:04:41 AM
Dota handles it perfectly
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#10EDumeyPosted 7/9/2014 12:03:10 PM
I rarely see leavers. Much more common if I join an ARAM queue or anything, but the rare ragequit does make me mad simply because it doesn't happen to me a lot. I'm probably one of thsoe players that can go thirty-forty games without seeing a single leaver. Though that one game that the leaver is in, my experience is completely ruined. I guess I just shouldn't complain, but seeing a look at severe punishment for leavers but also recognizing that a lot of people have hardware issues that unfortunately make them drop is the right direction. If there is a way for them to say "Alright this guy actually hit the leave button, f*** 'em up." Though I suppose people could disconnect the old way in just pulling their plug and have Riot be none the wiser.