Generic "I'm bad at the game so I'll discredit all the better players...

#61Zeeak4444Posted 9/4/2014 6:04:56 PM
MegaWentEvil posted...
And that's the difference between professional gamers and professional athletes. Professional athletes don't treat people who aren't on their level like they were sub-human.


What pro gamers have treated other players like that? I'm gonna need some sauce.
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#62Mander1861Posted 9/4/2014 6:11:27 PM
MegaWentEvil posted...
Mander1861 posted...
lol at all the nerds and skill talk


People should be bashing jocks, not nerds. Jocks are all muscle, bullying, and no brain.


Not true but anyways I should have said dorks because calling all these gamefaqs dorks nerds is an insult to nerds.
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#63TwoStrikes94Posted 9/4/2014 6:11:28 PM
MegaWentEvil posted...
And that's the difference between professional gamers and professional athletes. Professional athletes don't treat people who aren't on their level like they were sub-human.


we can't play with pro athletes for hours on end, every day of the week in ranked matches.

we can't watch a stream of pro athletes to see how they act everyday.


you know a lot more about pro gamers than you do pro athletes, but that said... pro gamers are mostly pretty good about this.
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#64MajinUltimaPosted 9/4/2014 6:34:21 PM
Doulou posted...
Objectively eh? :)

--Quite objectively. I watch the scores of both teams in my games. On rare occasion I can note that an enemy is feeding badly. Very often I can note that an ally is.

gkh5 posted...
Also to the person claiming that they don't win more often because they don't just play "BS assassins and yolo queue carries," that's just silly.

--It's a lot harder to carry as a teamfighter than it is as some bs like Akali.

KajeI posted...
Pretty sure the point is that if you actually are better than the rank you're in you'll climb and luck isn't much a factor, but if you aren't then advancement without improvement is largely luck based. Most people think they're better then they are though, so ya know, complaining.

--Yeah okay, I'll climb despite constantly playing well even if my feeder team throws games constantly. I can look at my own performance and see "Hey I didn't do so well" or "I did amazingly" but that still doesn't fix some scrub Leblanc feeding Katarina in mid and she just presses a few buttons for double and triple kills because she's fed.

Clairvoyent posted...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

--Yeah I knew something stupid like that would come up. It could be the case if I weren't actively looking at the scores and performance of the players on both teams during and after the game. There's a reason I said "objectively", because I do take clear notice if the enemy team has someone godawful and useless. And it is ojbectively a LOT less often than I'm stuck with such players.

TwoStrikes94 posted...
you can be a plat player in something like bronze 2, and you won't win every game.it's almost like being better than everyone in your game does not guarantee a win, because the game is 90% up to your teammates unless you are absolutely demolishing with a great champ that is able to carry harder than whatever champ(s) got fed on the other team.

--Bingo. If I were some toxic as hell assassin main, then MAYBE. I had two games with some really amazing jungle mains where they + myself in mid were able to carry the game hard by ourselves despite some sharp losses on top and bot. In those cases though, the top and bot were merely losing by a clear margin, not outright feeding.
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#65Maniacaly_SanePosted 9/4/2014 6:43:27 PM
Give me straight up numbers of how many times you've had a feeder vs enemy team.

You cant?

Then its NOT OBJECTIVE.

Human memory is the absolute worst source of information. Your memory purposefully twists things to fit what you want or believe.

Now stfu and carry harder nerd.

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#66bd43Posted 9/4/2014 7:10:40 PM(edited)
gkh5 posted...
rexbaner2 posted...
Obviously skill plays a role, but ignoring the influence of luck has is ignorant.


Trying to cling to the thought that luck has a significant influence is ignorant. There are only 4 people on your team that can do the things that would fall under "bad luck" (afk, feed, troll, not listen, whatever) and 5 people on the other team that can do all those things. The math is pretty simple. Assuming you do none of those and win lane consistently, you're going to win more than you lose.

Obviously you're going to have runs of good or bad luck in smaller sample sizes but I can promise you it's not bad luck just screwing you from advancing.


The real truth here is that if you're playing at skill level with people, you'll probably end up at a rank beyond your level.
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#67MajinUltimaPosted 9/4/2014 6:50:09 PM
TwoStrikes94 posted...
there are games you can't win, because there are people who are playing who play like they never had any intentions of winning in the first place.

--The best part is when they call you "toxic" ASAP even if literally the only thing you did was politely ask them to play safer. God forbid you express any criticism.

CrowsB4Hoes posted...
all the children/bads/idiots complaining ranked is all or mostly luck are the silver/bronze/goldies who think they are perfect. they should lane against a diamond/high plat player worth their salt and see how that goes

--LOL Who said perfect? I aim to improve and take note of mistakes I make. I also note mistakes others make. I will even openly say in chat when I made a mistake or screwed up. "I was dumb, I got caught." "I didn't expect their jungler to, out of sheer coincidence, be right there in that brush at that exact second I was warding it."

Had a game I lost where I actually did considerably better than my entire team by the end, but I still gave up first blood during a gank because I shielded Tristana so she could dodge a Thresh hook, but he was instead opting to aim for me. I also got our only kills before the 12min mark and had to roam our jungle and mid several times because our jungler was beyond useless, and blind. Even with wards showing incoming, and pings, he'd get caught and I'd turn it around with a quick roam because I actually watch the map and pay attention.

I did amazingly that game except for the first time I screwed up, which I openly acknowledge and criticize as a mistake on my part, and we still came out a little ahead in lane... but not enough to fix feeder top feeder mid and feeder jungle. I've had plenty of games where myself and/or others have had poor starts and turned it around, and it's almost exclusively wins. I've had very few games where my team having the competence to at least DRAW in lane isn't a win. If my team can actually survive laning without feeding, it's amazing how that almost always wins the game, even if it's even by that point.

Deathx113 posted...
Winning a game is about 70% luck. Unless you're like 5 leagues below where you should be.

--I feel that's pretty fair. Like I said, if both teams end laning pretty even (ie no one's got more than 2 kills over the other lane, at the absolutely most), it's almost exclusively wins for me. As I tend to main support or utility mage mids, my strength comes from making sure teamfights go my way and making sure key flanking angles are warded. There's a stark minority of even/ahead games which get thrown to a loss.

Covenant posted...
The chance factor evens out over a large number of games played, leaving only your skill to determine your rank.

--Not really. Actual RNG levels out. But not necessarily this. The same player who plays like crap on your team for that game can carry another game.

Deathx113 posted...
The luck factor gets higher the higher you go.
Because you'll eventually be playing people your level.

--Pretty much. If everyone's relatively evenly matched, and there's 1 outlier trash player on 1 team, it's going to skew things very heavily, because it's practically 4v6.
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#68MajinUltimaPosted 9/4/2014 7:06:36 PM
KajeI posted...
So yes. In the short term, luck may play a part. But over a longer period of time, you'll reach the point you should be at regardless. There's a reason when people actually noticeably improve at some aspect of the game you'll see them advance further. Saying that they got lucky would be dumb, unless they really hadn't improved much if at all.

--I really doubt most people have. I think most people are mindless sheep players and not particularly creative or strategically skilled, and get carried more by luck or just favorable lane matches than through any actual skill on their part.

gkh5 posted...
No **** you're not gonna win every game in a team game with a bunch of Internet randoms. But, again, there's 1 less of them on your team than their team so assuming you're not one of those bad randoms like you claim to be, the math is ALWAYS in your favor!

--Just because the math is in your favor, that doesn't mean it plays out that way. Crafting in FF14 will show you just how often stupid stuff like a 1/1000 chance of failure can actually occur... repeatedly, despite only having made a few hundred items.

AeternaNocturne posted...
But if you find yourself saying the team was too heavy 3 out of every 4 or 5 games, you're just as heavy as the rest of your team was.

--Depends on your preferred role and champs. You're really unlikely to actually carry the game yourself as say Morgana or Nami, no matter how awesomely you play. They aren't hard carry champs like faceroll Yi or Yasuo or Akali or Fizz or Jax etc. I did get ahead and carry a game hard as mid Morgana one time, but that was a very rare exception. It's almost impossible to get far enough ahead for a mediocre damage champ like Morgana to be a hard carry, your lane opponent would have to be really terrible.

Card games even have a bit more objective examples of Luck vs Skill. Drafting, in Magic the Gathering, involves some luck with the cards you get but, barring a few exceptional bombs, the playing field in a Draft is very level. Budget, spending a ton of money on overpowered cards, is removed as a factor. Constructed play, I won't get very far, I don't spend the money to. Get me in a Draft and I can literally sit on 1st place for over a month straight and be 1st or 2nd literally 8 or 9 times out of 10.

I bring that parallel up here because it's much the same... give me a level playing field 12-15min into the game and I will win a huge majority of the time. If my team has a lead, it's already over in my favor by then, it's not getting turned around.

Maniacaly_Sane posted...
Give me straight up numbers of how many times you've had a feeder vs enemy team.You cant?Then its NOT OBJECTIVE.

--Yeah sorry I didn't create a spreadsheet to track how often I have rage-inducing feeders on my team.

Maniacaly_Sane posted...
Human memory is the absolute worst source of information. Your memory purposefully twists things to fit what you want or believe.

--It's a good thing I'm observing it in real time and at the score screen every time then.
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#69AeternaNocturne(Topic Creator)Posted 9/4/2014 7:09:16 PM
The real purpose of this thread has been unfolded

I now know who on gf is bronze/silver

All of you luck whiners
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#70Deathx113Posted 9/4/2014 7:10:36 PM
AeternaNocturne posted...
The real purpose of this thread has been unfolded

I now know who on gf is bronze/silver

All of you luck whiners



Gold, and how am I whining? Just because I know the game is luck doesn't mean I'm whining about it. Lol
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