Ugh, the difficulty ramps up considerably starting chapter 11

#21Shadow Cloud(Topic Creator)Posted 5/27/2012 5:36:28 PM
I just finished the game earlier this morning., I find chapter 11 and 12 to be the hardest (and most frustrating ones) in the game. 13 and 14 aren't too bad and their difficulties felt right. One of the reasons I find chapter 11 and 12 really hard was the insane number of enemies they thrown at you. There's a certain section of chapter 11 where you have to shoot like 15 or more guys on a pirate ship and then run up some stairs only to face like 10 more guys.
#22MetallicaOpethPosted 5/28/2012 5:09:30 AM
Shadow Cloud posted...
It insane how many enemies they throw at you. Worse yet, they all seem to have super human accuracy. I thought the difficulty felt fair before this chapter, but now it's starting to feel a bit frustrating.


Welcome to the wonderful world of Max Payne. This has always been the case in the MP series. The enemies notice you in an instant, have amazing accuracy and kill you in 2 shots. It basically forces you to learn how to use bullet time effectively. Love this s.hit.
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#23punches_n_kixPosted 5/28/2012 7:25:48 AM
againstype posted...
That's where i stopped having fun, and just pushed through to the end just to be done with it. It was all just so cheap, and tedious. Forcing you to play Cover+Pop & Shoot style, which to me isn't really what Max Payne is about...But fine, i'm ok with a little change of pace and higher difficulty towards the end.

But the cover mechanic is just broken in this game, it's outdated and cumbersome, and flat out flawed. Why do i have to stand all the way up to get back into cover after being knocked down? What's the point of Last Man Standing when i will slowly get back up and get raped by every other person in the room before i can get back into cover? Why does everyone know exactly where i am at all times and magnetically aim perfectly for me through any obstacle in the 1.5 seconds i pop out of cover to take a shot? I could go on...

Max Payne had always been about cinematic John Woo/Matrix style gun fights, with some crouching and strategy (and difficulty), but pretty much just cool guns blazing crazy jumping slo-mo scenery shredding badassery...R* went and made a cover shooter, with a cover system from I-Don't-Know-When, and tacked on a generally convoluted story which was pretty much riffing off Man On Fire the whole time...without a satisfactory conclusion.

Part 2 of this game, was super fun, quick and generally a blast to play. Part 3, was Hell. And it's clear they want you to play it at least 3 times...and i just don't see how people can do it. I'm playing on Easy now, to just enjoy myself, collecting the clues and golden guns. Anything else, would just be (no pun intended) a grind.


Agree with you TC. Though control's in general are cumbersome in this game, its no that you can just do a quick combat roll into cover, you roll, stand straight back up for a 1 1/2 seconds, then he decides to get into cover after smashing square ten times. When you shootdodge, he doesn't hurry the frig up and scrambles to cover, he SLOWLY stands up straight. Throughout the game, cover is a damn focus; there are plenty of parts where you are thrown out of a cutscene and stuck in cover until you deal with the enemies shooting at you, or your dead. The story is not as much convoluted as it is uninteresting, along with all characters in the game.
#24punches_n_kixPosted 5/28/2012 7:32:50 AM
almasbaby posted...
The game does get a little tedious toward the end. It became a chore for me rather than a challenge. I remember the train shootout especially. Ugh! You have to be real quick in this game. Everytime I aimed at somebody he'd duck, and magically wouldn't pop up again until I was no longer aiming in his direction. Now how is a guy going to know if you have your sights on his location unless he peeks? These guys are all psychic!


deeply hated the stupid train fight. Was no fun period. But i played through free aim on hard, and the game wasn't that hard at all, just in an artificial manner. How you are stuck behind cover and get shot into last stand ode the moment you poke out, waves and waves of enemies like on the last fight. Cover is atrocious; when fighting the captian in the police station, i couldnt take cover behind certain things.
#25riouken1234Posted 5/28/2012 7:37:52 AM
After I do a shootdodge and land on the ground, as long as I'm close to cover, all I have to do is press square and Max will get into cover pretty quickly. I've never been shot during that transition.

Am I just getting lucky? I'm playing it on Hard if that makes a difference.
#26againstypePosted 5/28/2012 3:23:37 PM
riouken, i'd say you're getting lucky...but maybe you're just that damn good. either way, kudos.

Glad to see i'm not the only one, while having fun, can admit the game doesn't become a challenge but becomes artificially cumbersome. Well put, whoever said that.

Going back and playing through some levels on easy, just for fun, was just that...fun. got to just go in guns blazing, in slo mo, diving over desks and anything else, tearing up the scenery and the bad guys...felt good. Something i never would've done in those last chapters in my first play through.

The train sequence in the Airport was the last straw for me in a way...it wasn't hard, not in comparison to the terminal with "tears" playing (glad i like that song b/c i heard it about 20 times)...but fighting on the trains was just, unnecessary. it wasn't a cool fight, didn't advance the story, it was just there..b/c well we need another "on-rail" shooting scene. And it also showcased the "perfect" AI, ducking right as you come up and reappearing as soon as you go back in to cover. I feel like it lessened the impact of not only the Terminal shootout, but the finale shootout.

The best on-rails mission in this game, and one of the most fun levels, was the boat chase.
#27ManwichManPosted 5/28/2012 8:23:57 PM
No, he isn't the only one who knows how to get the cover system to work. It's not a perfect system, but, if you've died 20+ times at the terminal, you should be able to figure out what's going wrong instead of saying it's the game's fault. If you're having fun on easy, that's great, but it really sounds like you shouldn't like any single player combat game's difficulty system. Because you can't program human volatility, every single player combat game increases difficulty in at least one of these ways:

Increased enemy count and or health
Lowered player HP/damage
Increased enemy combat efficiency/accuracy
The element of surprise: Enemy placement, tactics, not knowing their weaknesses, and how to exploit them
Increased item scarcity (Which isn't in this game)

We get it: You don't like the cover mechanic, and you don't like having to slow down and learn how to use it on the higher difficulty settings. Just stop complaining about 'artificial' difficulty spikes, because every single player combat game ever has had to use some of the elements you're talking about. GTA does it. Call of Duty does it. Mass Effect, Dead Space, Dark Souls, Resident Evil, Fallout, Metal Gear Solid, etc. have done it. MP 3 certainly isn't perfect, but don't complain about an element of the game you'll find in literally 99% of all games created.
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#28riouken1234Posted 5/28/2012 10:21:45 PM
againstype posted...
riouken, i'd say you're getting lucky...but maybe you're just that damn good. either way, kudos.


Hahaha, I'm really not very good at games in general, so I doubt that is it. However, I do think there are some things people aren't utilizing when it comes to the cover syste. If you use these techniques and it doesn't work for you, then I'm sorry I don't mena t osound condescending, I've just had success using these methofds.

- Using the shootdodge strategically. Landing behind cover, waiting for the enemy to stop shooting and then pressing square whilst led on the ground. If you do this, Max doesn't stumble up and stand in open fire. He rushes into cover.

Rolling is another effective method. Rolling behind cover and then pressing square is slightly more fluid and more effective.

Rolling into a shootdodge behind cover is also effective.

Don't get me wrong, this does not solve the issue of an outdated cover system to begin with. Yes, it's annoying that Max can't transition between cover smoothly (although, I suually use the shootdodge to do this). Like I said before, the worst one is when you are behid cover and wish to turn a corner so to speak. In other games, you can make a corner transition, but in this game, you have to leave cover, move an inch or 2 and then press square again.

Of course, strategic use of shootdodge may not be to everyones taste. Trust me, sometimes I'll just make OTT risks because it looks awesome, like flying over desk gunsblazing, or diving through window into open fire when the door was right there haha.

If you've used these methods and they don't work, then maybe I am just not noticing that I actually am getting shot, which is possible in the heat gunfire.

One last thing about artifical difficulty. I know where it stems from and I agree. It is artifical. They just threw a lotta guys at you. It gave gunfights an intensity though. I never felt like the difficulty had a random jump, it felt gradual.
#29againstypePosted 5/29/2012 9:12:19 AM
@Manwich

My issue isn't just the cover system, i just think that sticks out the most amongst the issues. I wasn't expecting perfection, and i'm not trying to piss on anyones parade...simply agreeing with the original topic, and i felt more frustrated and having less fun in the end of MP3 than most games. It could have been a combination of things as well, as Max (for the first time) was getting on my nerves with his horrid decisions, and the plot of the story kinda of just going (and going) yet not really feeling anything for the characters...

I know how games work, single player and other wise...and i've played many, on varying difficulty settings, that did get harder or even spike in difficulty. The difference being, for me, some seem more organic than others. Some keep a balance, giving you new tools or ways to fight back against the increased number or strength of enemies. The run the line of keeping it challenging with out losing the fun factor. Like God of War, Mass Effect, Arkham City, Splinter Cell, Driver, Gears of War, and Uncharted (know i'm about to catch hell for that one probably)...for example.

Max is the same from chapter 1 to 14, as far as skills/weapons/abilities. That also probably added to the feeling this had gone on too long by the end, the only changes were the enemy. And maybe what it is, in those ending chapters, is that the game wants you to play a very certain way...and I wanted more freedom to be a BA.

Again to reiterate, i liked the game, up until the end. I think there is some solid fun to be had with Max Payne, but I don't feel it's a masterpiece, and i think there was a lot of missed opportunities. Another game i thought got cheap, and tedious towards the end, Mortal Kombat (2011). Had fun with it too, until the end. It's saving grace was the variety of ways to play. Same goes for Twisted Metal (2012)
#30ManwichManPosted 5/29/2012 9:31:47 AM
That's fair, sadly. I'm still going to disagree with you about the story, but that aspect of the game is the most open to interpretation. I liked the story, loved the presentation (The opening to the Panama chapter ((http://youtu.be/IoXK_UE09og)) reminds me of something you'd see in Breaking Bad), loved the sound track/voice acting, and loved the fact that it was essentially a movie. I liked the fact that the gameplay is basically the same as it was in MP 1/2, but the problem is that, as great as they were (And as good as they are now), this type of gameplay isn't as smooth as it was nine years ago. This was one of the most smooth, least frustrating experiences I've ever had, but it is fairly similar to the problem with Resident Evil 5. I dunno. I came in expecting Max Payne style gameplay and flawed multiplayer, but one of the most cinematic games ever, and that's what I got. I'm sad that more people will probably have to agree with you, by the time the sales have finally settled.
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