I'm gonna ask a question, and I want some honest answers from you all..

#11Rocky2418Posted 6/20/2013 10:57:19 AM
Tendog posted...
Nintendo has done the same with Skyward Sword...more helping-hands.


Game: 'You found the dungeon map!'

Fi: 'Master, you have obtained a map. You can use it to locate things within this dungeon.'

...

Kikwi Elder: 'Yes, I think I know where Zelda went, but I'm preoccupied with and worried about the 3 Kikwis that are still missing... So, my mind's a little hazy. Maybe if someone could find them for me, I could remember...'

Fi: 'Master, it appears that the Kikwi elder can help us find Zelda, if the other Kikwis can be found and accounted for. I suggest that we search for the missing Kikwis.

...

Game: 'You got Zora's Scale! It is one of the goddess's three sacred gifts.'

Fi: 'Master, you have acquired Zora's Scale - one of the three sacred gifts of the goddess.'

...

Ho...ly...crap...

I don't know who here has seen the movie Galaxy Quest, but on the fictitious Star-Trek-like TV show "Galaxy Quest" - around which the movie centered - Sigourney Weaver's character's only job on the ship was to listen to the central computer's warnings and instructions (which were broadcast, so the whole crew could already hear them) and repeat them to the crew.

Fi was essentially a far more annoying version of what that character would have been like to watch.
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"Why is it so hard? ... Why can't you just take me? ... I don't have much to go... before... I fade completely..." - Kelly Clarkson
#12friendlydudePosted 6/21/2013 2:23:47 PM
I admit even with all the hand holding, I had an enormous amount of trouble understanding Skyward Sword. I had to use FAQ's and youtube walkthroughs to get me through most of it. The people on the SS message board here at gamefaqs were less than enthusiastic in helping me too, which made it even harder.

"When 3d world was announced and I found out it was like galaxy I knew immediately I would never play it."

But... it's nothing like Galaxy. At least according to the board for 3D World. In fact everyone's now criticizing the Galaxy games because too many people wanted 3D World to be as grand as the Galaxy series but instead it appears to be anything but.
#13NaridarPosted 6/22/2013 4:00:15 PM
I think the galaxy games and 3D land (and presumably 3D world) are more linear so they can present a tighter paced, more platformer-esque experience, instead of the open worlds and more easily circumventable courses of SM64 and to a lesser degree, sunshine. I found that getting one star is faster in SM64 than in the galaxy games, because in the latter, you need to go through an entire stage to get the star, while in the former, some stars were located near a stage's entry point (case in point: Dire, dire docks has the manta ray star and the star in the chests, each obtainable in about a minute). And with the exception of Sunshine's no-fludd obstacle courses, 64 and sunshine rarely provided players with a traditional platforming experience (the only true examples I can think of are the Bowser levels and some of the later courses), whereas in Galaxy, especially 2, nearly each level had one.

Which one you like is obviously up to player preference, I like the way the Galaxy games worked more.
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The official Swampert of the Pokemon X/Y board
Riding down the highway in a Ferrari F138 - life as it's meant to be.
#14Sprint3r06Posted 7/3/2013 2:31:49 PM
I went in thinking that I liked the open world Super Mario 64 style better, and still thought that way after SMG1. But SMG2 blew me away in just its fun and quality and is easily my favorite Mario game ever. I think they should make both styles of games though, it's been a little too long since they did a open world game.
#15EeqmcsqPosted 7/6/2013 2:20:52 AM
Having been out of video games until the past month, I'm still bewildered at the concept of hand holding in video games nowadays. I did some googling around about it, and I've learned that the hand holding is designed for the casual gamer or less skilled gamer. Which helps widen the game's audience, but also cheapens the game for those of us that want a challenge.

Even when the helping hand is optional, like New Super Mario's Wii's Super Guide option that appears after you die 8 times in a stage, I still find it degrading and insulting to me that even such an option exists. When I ride a bike, I don't ride with "optional" training wheels on it, even if I don't use them. I want to ride with 2 wheels and my skills and that's it.

So I did some thinking about it, I thought of 2 ways to solve this that would satisfy me and make me want to play more modern games:

1. Make the helping hands a configurable option. If the player turns it off, those arrows and trail of coins to follow don't appear in the game. The Super Guide / Cosmic Guide never appears.

2. Add extra content after the game as a reward for those who turn off the helping hand option, or that has no helping hand whatsoever (like New Super Mario Wii's World 9). If the player makes it to the end of this extra content, give the player a new final stage, new boss fight, and a new ending that's waaaaay cooler and awesomer than the regular boss/ending, like a "true" ending. This way, the hardcore gamer is rewarded with a sense of accomplishment based on his own skills and persistence, while the casual gamer still gets to play through and "beat" most of the game.
#16friendlydudePosted 7/7/2013 7:29:09 AM
^ Those are excellent tips. It is insulting those who desire a challenge are forced to go through the game in a hand-holding way. You explain nicely why this is too (widens the audience). Hey nobody saved my ass from all those deaths in Lost Levels!
#17kenff6Posted 7/12/2013 4:19:39 PM
I don't want to flame, but I never believe these statements about people not dying even once in "easy" games. It's just such a chest-beating and ridiculous kind of statement to make. Like really? You knew exactly what to do in every possible situation despite every level being brand new to you? Your hand never slipped causing an accidental death? Your accuracy was so god-like that you never made any kind of mistake at all that resulted in a death? Whatever.......if you're that insanely good at games you should enter some tournaments and win money.

Anyways, I also prefer the more open worlds of 64. The Galaxy games seem like they're streamlined a bit but they're still really fun.
#18Rocky2418Posted 7/13/2013 9:26:39 AM
kenff6 posted...
You knew exactly what to do in every possible situation despite every level being brand new to you? Your hand never slipped causing an accidental death? Your accuracy was so god-like that you never made any kind of mistake at all that resulted in a death?


Indeed - nobody is that good. Those leading questions are describing a robot, not a human. Hence, the explanation for such claims is simple - they are intentionally lying to either make themselves look better (chest beating, as you said) or make a point about how "easy" a game is. Well, taking liberties with the truth makes winning arguments easier, sure (though it's quite despicable) - only, however, if you're intelligent about the lie you make up. Saying you've never died in either of these games... That was not a well-thought-out claim to make.
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"Why is it so hard? ... Why can't you just take me? ... I don't have much to go... before... I fade completely..." - Kelly Clarkson
#19friendlydudePosted 7/15/2013 2:51:27 PM
I'm the kind of guy who's likely to die when encountering an enemy for the very first time since I have NO idea what he's going to do to me. I'm the kind of person who walks right up to an enemy and tries to chat... and then he attacks me! I think "Hey, he's not my friend. He just killed me!" haha.

Now if it's a familiar enemy in a sequel, I'll treat them the way I treated them in the previous game. For example the flying goombas in Super Mario Bros. 3. The first time I encountered him I had NO idea he was actually going to lift off the ground and fly in the air before I had a chance to stomp on his head! And of course, I had no idea he was going to come down on top of me and kill me either :p

It's amazing so many gamers are able to figure out what to do before it happens. It's like figuring out a crossword puzzle answer before reading the question!
#20xdiesp6Posted 7/19/2013 8:09:19 AM
It's called a difficulty curve, and player skill. So the game definitely starts off with much hand holding; and since you are not a baby, you can already do some pretty sick tricks by yourself. But what should matter to you, is: are these stupid details going to prevent you to enjoy this great game as you have the divine right to?