5 years ago#461
All those points have already been covered.
Multiple times in fact....
Get comfy and start reading.
I don't think winning is really a measure of skill.
(Topic Creator)5 years ago#462
From my post in another topic on this board:
There are indeed no major plotholes. Of course there is some minor stuff, like how Samus should be less surprised when making similar experiences in Fusion.
Holes are not the problem. The problem is that, the plot as we got it needs substantial work, and suffers from a terrible execution. Any holes that exist in this plot are but mere drops in the pond if the plot itself is a problem.
- Unaided Coder claims Ridley doesn't act like an intelligent being in Other M, but it is clearly shown that Ridley fools the scientists by playing dead so he can flee. Ridley also manipulates Samus to destroy the bee hive so he can eat the honey. When he fights Samus and the soldiers in his lizard form, he is calls various monsters to help him.
What did Ridley do to guide Samus to that hive and kill the insects? Samus was moving on her own accord; at best, Ridley was following her (somehow, and without being seen) and was getting sustenance off the life she killed.
As for playing dead, have you ever heard the phrase "playing possum?" It's a very basic animal behavior, from simpler mammals to even most insects. Mind you, Ridley doesn't use it as an anti predator technique, but then I can cite dozens of far more creative hunting methods in the animal kingdom than using yourself as bait for an ambush.
Don't analyze what Ridley does; he's a roaring monster in every installation, there's no real signs of intelligence there to begin with. Look at what he tries to do. Stealing the Metroid, or protecting an objective. The best Other M has to offer for intelligence are instinctual, on the moment actions by Ridley; he has no long term planning, purpose, or goal to speak of.
- When trying to debunk the speculation about genetic memory, he just shows that he doesn't understand the concept of genetic memory at all. Some races have it, some not. He tries to turn it into some magical concept of the Metroid universe.
We covered the possibility of Ridley having this exclusively from post 1. There's still no evidence in Other M that he actually does recognize Samus, for the TONS of reasons cited up to this point.
- He obviously doesn't get the point of the deleter subplot: It's there to spread mistrust to create a feeling of isolation despite being in a group. To see him kill other GF soldiers also helps to show that the GF is not completely behind the events on the BS.
The get the point, but that point was not executed properly. There's far more to writing than this all elusive "point," to the point where the point is insubstantial in comparison. I direct you to the phrase that it is about the journey, not the destination. More literally, it is how the story is told, not the story itself, that makes or breaks great writing.
- I don't understand his complaint about the less important GF soldiers at all. Does he think Samus is supposed to have a personal relationship with all of them?
I didn't care about every character killed in the Alien movies, actually i didn't care about many characters who died in horror movies, doe that make all these movies bad?
Alien had more than one character that classified as being more than human. And if you are watching horror movies with little emotional investment in it's characters, then you are not watching good horror movies.
(Topic Creator)5 years ago#463
The thing about these examples is that the story takes a backseat to some other factor, in both cases the HORROR aspect. That's not the case in Other M; whereas in your examples the story is a support for the meat and potatoes of why you went to see it (horror, effects, so on) Other M's story actively hinders the game's attempt at being a game.
And finally, don't cite examples of bad writing to justify other examples of bad writing. If they're both bad, one is not magically ok because the other is worse.
- He also complains that the deleter and Ridley are not killed by Samus herself, because he seems to think having the whole universe revolve around the main character is good writing. No, it's not. It's actually surprisingly realistic that not every problem has to be solved by Samus herself and that there are events she can't influence.
There's a difference between realism and good writing. Realism is a great utility when supporting immersion, as it eases the necessity of suspension of disbelief. Ridley's issues, for example. However, this "realistic" outcome also completely botches two plot threads and their respective climaxes; they just putter out and get forgotten, ultimately fulfilling nothing.
You know what else is realistic? Getting an internship and photocopying papers for the summer to ultimately go unrecognized. Realism isn't an all positive goal in itself; it's something you use when necessary, and stretch when it fits the storytelling process best.
- Samus calls the deleter the deleter because that's his purpose, he is on the BS to delete information. He is NOT an assassin like Coder claims because he wouldn't kill anyone if it wasn't necessary to make sure the information about the BS doesn't spread.
James is referred to as an assassin several times, particularly prior to his labeling. It was a completely unnecessary title when she never needs to identify him to anyone else.
And where are you getting this "only if necessary" bit from? He approaches and kills everybody he can; there's no hint that he's contemplating the necessity of this at any point, nor does Samus make any notion of this.
- At last he claims that Samus actions on the BS didn't have any consequences because all problems would have solved themselves. I was under the impression that without her, MB and the monsters might have killed the 7th Platoon quite quickly and her attack on the GF might have been successful.The 7th Platoon might have died at the purple bug monster without Samus rockets, or lizard Ridley might have killed them all had he not focused on Samus. The purple thing that attacks Anthony before Samus gets the Grapple Beam might have killed him. Note that the GF rescue team at the end wouldn't have reached the BS if Anthony hadn't stopped it.
I refer you to the rest of the topic, because I am not going to go over the Dictionary's worth of reasons as to why she was irrelevant again for the next twit who thinks he has this topic figured out without reading it.
(Topic Creator)5 years ago#464
I could go on like this for most of his other points, but i think you get the picture:
The TC of the "Story Analysis" topic calls everything he doesn't understand a plothole while ignoring information given in the game (like Ridley showing intelligent behaviour) and the "good writing" he asks for is utterly ridiculous (he wants every minor character to be explained? he wants everything in the universe to revolve around Samus?).
Of course the story isn't perfect, but Unaided Coder seems to be asking for a far worse story.
I do not recall calling anything a plot hole in my analysis. The holes are irrelevant; they are holes in the problem itself.
And my analysis would, at best, make the plot better, not good. If I wanted to write a good story for Other M, I'd scrap this one and start from scratch; it's too totaled to recover any meaningful elements from and conjure up a good story from
5 years ago#465
From: link593 | #002
Lol... You need a topic limit (@meismeself)
5 years ago#466
Batta the Beast
Posted 9/20/2010 2:46:11 AM
Oh, jeez, LZ. What an odd place to run into you.
Nothing much man. Decided to finally finish Metroid Other M since I got done finishing on a project.
How have you been?
It's more than good, it's alive!
Warning: May contain stone hat pieces http://i28.tinypic.com/55gw9h.jpg
5 years ago#467
The same as I've been for the last three years now, really. Struggling with depression and trying to write fiction. I haven't touched what I've been working on most recently for the past few months, though.
Also, playing this game--I didn't like it, obviously. And Dragon Quest IX, but the grind really gets to me sometimes.
The speech you gave to the legless boy about hard work and making something of himself was fantastic.~ Bhelen Aeducan
Wario... Wario never changes. ~ belial_77
5 years ago#468
Well PedroMontana has been obliterated. We need about 2 more people to stand up to the millstone if we want to make 500.
5 years ago#469
All valid points. However, I can create a six-page long post about what's wrong with the story of the other Metroid games as well. They also tried to have a big story. Well, the Prime games I mean.
It's not a movie. It's a videogame. They always tend to have stories that don't make sense. The thought of Samus having survived 9 videogames doesn't make any sense. She took on the whole Space Pirate army, invaded their home planet, took on all the Metroids,... and survived. On her own.
Same posts can be made about Zelda games. They don't make any sense either. But they don't have to, because they're not movies and just videogames. Suspend your disbelief and go with it, and within the story, the events that unfolded were fitting. Yes, the deleter was only introduced to make Samus doubt Adam and Anthony, but so what? Again, I can also make a post just as long as yours about the original Metroid Prime, an even longer one about Echoes, and an even longer one about Corruption.
If you didn't enjoy the gameplay, then that's your opinion. I enjoyed this game about as much as Metroid Prime. It's not perfect no, but I had fun all the way through. Exploration is fun sometimes as well, but it can bore me to death as well in other times. It was refreshing to actually just follow a set path for me this time. Team Ninja and Nintendo tried something else, something completely different than the Prime games, and they developed a formula that they truly succeeded in. Unfortunately, it's a formula that doesn't please as much people as Prime's formula. The Prime games speak to several types of gamers. Other M speaks to a smaller group of people. That's the problem. The game is quite good and Ninja/Nintendo succeeded in delivering what they set out to deliver.
5 years ago#470
Here we go again
I should have been the one to fill your dark soul with LIIIIIGHT!
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