Dark Samus vs. SA-X

#61DiortePosted 10/12/2012 12:44:15 PM(edited)
So you're saying that Dark Samus corrupted the hunters with no intention of controlling them from the get-go, and knew that the GF would power them with PED Suits, which would cause them to be fully under the control of Dark Samus? I highly doubt Dark Samus would predict that.


Dark Samus corrupts them, and instead of killing them or controlling them, she just flies away. If they were under Dark Samus' control, why didn't she just have them all destroy the GF? If she was gonna control them from the start, why didn't she? From what I saw, she only planted a Phazon seed in them and waited for the moment for it to be perfectly ripe, and then harvested the sweet, concentrated Phazon from their bodies before their death. If she wanted to control them, why didn't she assist them when they fought Samus? They weren't on the same side, they were just another source of Phazon for her to feed on.

It's a bad thing for the SA-X because Dark Samus will have it under its control.

That's never even happened before.

What? Dark Samus was able to control AU313, which was able to control Phaaze. Phaaze initially controlled all Phazon, so Dark Samus does as well.

She had to physically merge with the AU to do that, which she only did in the end. And what did she do with all this control, anyway? If she had all of Phazon under her control, she really didn't do much of anything at all with it.

Or, the GF would have the workings of the PED Suit shown classified, and not let any of the BSL have any access to it because they didn't need it.


All I can say on this one is "Wooooow...." The X isn't a BSL employee, it gives no ****s about what the GF says it can and cannot access, it can access anything it wants. Have you heard of "hacking?"
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#62Big_IsaacPosted 10/12/2012 12:54:46 PM
Shah138 posted...
The point is that it's not the Plasma beam yet it can still hurt the SA-X.

the Screw attack is similarly powerful than the Plasma beam. so what? giant, planet-vaporizing explosions can kill the SA-X, too. still doesn't change anything about DS not having the means to get through that armor

What does this have to do with anything? I'm just saying there is zero reason for anything Phazon related to be on the BSL so it's much more likely that there is nothing there that the SA-X can use to figure out anything against Phazon.

if the GF don't cover up the war against the pirates in MP3, then info about Phazon got out
if info about Phazon got out, then the scientists on the BSL knew about it
if the scientists knew, then the X know
if the X know, then the SA-X knows.

hence the SA-X knows some details about Phazon.

Samus doesn't know how to build a PED suit or how it's inner workings work. Therefore the SA-X doesn't know either.

she knows that Phazon is effective against phazon and 3 independent ways to harness it
this means that the X can try to replicate the conditions from MP1, throw DS' own phazon back at her like in MP2 and/or have a scientist-x search for info on the PED
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#63Shah138Posted 10/12/2012 1:16:52 PM
the Screw attack is similarly powerful than the Plasma beam. so what? giant, planet-vaporizing explosions can kill the SA-X, too. still doesn't change anything about DS not having the means to get through that armor

Since the Screwattack can hurt the SA-X, that means Phazon can too. All the Screwattack is is a strong energy attack. That's it. Phazon has no reason to not do damage.

if the GF don't cover up the war against the pirates in MP3, then info about Phazon got out
if info about Phazon got out, then the scientists on the BSL knew about it
if the scientists knew, then the X know
if the X know, then the SA-X knows.


I know about the atomic bomb. That doesn't mean I can make an atomic bomb. The best the SA-X can do is make a chunk of metal that looks like a PED suit, but not an actual PED suit.

she knows that Phazon is effective against phazon and 3 independent ways to harness it
this means that the X can try to replicate the conditions from MP1, throw DS' own phazon back at her like in MP2 and/or have a scientist-x search for info on the PED


In a VS battle it's just the two characters. There is no scientist x the SA-X can go running to for help. Dark Samus and the SA-X are on their own. There is no giant pool of pure phazon to make a Phazon suit from. There is no knowledge of how to built a working PED suit. At the end of Prime 2 there was only one kind of Phazon attack that you could absorb and redirect, which I don't recall seeing DS use again in Prime 3. I also don't remember the SA-X ever using the charge beam in Fusion so it might not even have it.
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#64P4wn4g3Posted 10/12/2012 3:17:38 PM
Diorte posted...
Corrupted=your body produces Phazon.

I don't entirely agree with this definition. The original Phazon Suit for instance was corrupted but did not produce Phazon. It harnessed it from pure Phazon pools and prevented Phazon damage, but that's all. I think the definition of corrupted here would be mutated by Phazon, with the self producing variant being one mutation of many we see through the series.

Oh and also, I'm pretty sure the Phazon beam, no matter the form, is supposed to be some regular beam that is laced with the chemical. There isn't much other explanation for your phazon reserves running out when you go into hypermode.

Also, you guys seem to be forgetting that the Phazon Suit and by extension Dark Samus was born from Vertigo Strain Phazon, which was bio-engineered from fungi in order to create a strain of Phazon that was processable by organisms and didn't inhibit higher brain functions. Although it seems that Dark Samus figured out how to create a similar strain herself (likely a mixture of pure and vertigo strains), she doesn't seem to value life or care for higher brain function, so there probably isn't anymore vertigo strain going around after the Omega Pirate incident. This would explain some of her unique properties such as control over certain corrupted enemies and her own higher cognitive abilities. Really there is no evidence that any Phazon creature in the series is under her control, except the AUs, some pirates, possibly Ridley, and possibly the hunters. It is said in game though that she taught the pirates new technologies, so it would make sense that they are able to do so to a small degree.

The X are known to be parasites, and parasites are one of the first corrupted creatures we see in the primes, so we know they aren't immune to Phazon madness. The only creatures that are immune to Phazon Madness seem to be Metroids and Fungi. This includes otherwise improbable creatures like the Thardus golem, or any hyper robot. The X may be able to systematically send one X after another to absorb and adapt to Phazon, but without the Vertigo Strain this is shown (without counter evidence) to be impossible, unless you are a Metroid. In fact, you can't really build a case for Metroids because they always act insane, and Fungi sit around looking pretty while successfully producing edible Phazon, but that's about it.

I guess Samus somehow fought off Dark Samus's Phazon infection, but she had the PED suit... honestly I've always seen this to be a plothole. Samus has no reason to be able to resist Phazon any more than any other creature, unless she is part fungus.

tl;dr Given the no longer available requirement that a creature must be infected with Vertigo Strain Phazon (of some measure) in order to remain in full control of their own faculties, I don't see any situation in which the SA-X would successfully overcome Dark Samus. I mean, it's really unlikely and unless Dark Samus just conjures some up for the X, it won't happen.
#65P4wn4g3Posted 10/12/2012 3:33:52 PM
Oh also I'm pretty sure if the X decided to try to copy Saturnines in order to start creating their own Vertigo Strain (which would make such an awesome Metroid game IMO... anyway), which is the one way I can think of that they could circumvent the problem, then I am thinking that their parasitic abilities are like a Metroid's except that they absorb the organism's thoughts as well. I'm not entirely sure though...

This is taking a step away from Dark Samus vs. SA-X and going more towards Phazon vs. X. The SA-X itself has no reason to be able to overcome the problem.
#66P4wn4g3Posted 10/12/2012 3:38:30 PM
Oh also there is no reason to think that the X successfully copied everything that Samus is, seeing as they were removed before they had a chance to break down her nervous system. I imagine they'd have to get pretty intimate with her brain in order to fully absorb her memories.

This is further supported by how maniacal the SA-X acts, and how it doesn't entirely look like Samus.
#67P4wn4g3Posted 10/12/2012 4:01:51 PM
P4wn4g3 posted...
Samus has no reason to be able to resist Phazon any more than any other creature, unless she is part fungus.

Really what I'm saying here is that she wasn't feeling too fresh at the time. You know. Down there.

No but seriously. Although that could make for an incredibly disgusting story, I think "plothole" makes more sense. Also this is just a glimpse at how impure my mind truly is. I mean when you think about it, that suit probably has its own environment, and she sure does spend a lot of time in it. Without washing it...

Also this:

Big_Isaac posted...
having the Omega Pirate ooze out all over your face

If you're thinking what I'm thinking, your mind is as dirty as mine. Or at least you aren't pure.
#68PlasdurockPosted 10/12/2012 5:49:01 PM(edited)
Oozing all over Ridley...
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#69DiortePosted 10/12/2012 10:32:47 PM(edited)
I can come up with a pretty easy way to introduce the SA-X to the Prime line to introduce SA-X to Dark Samus. The X and Phazon did exist at the same time, so if we want an SA-X to appear during the Phazon arc without pretending we're using the SA-X from Fusion for some stupid reason, we can just say "During a Space Pirate trip to SR388 to grab some Metroids, some Spare Pirates were unlucky enough to get infected by the X. They then gtfo using their ship, they get all wacky with the Space Pirates back on some mothership or base or something, blah blah blah" let enough time pass and eventually some X Pirates could easily come in contact with Samus at some point.

Here we can choose whether the SA-X could be using Samus' Phazon Suit, her Light Suit, or her PED Suit, it just depends on when and where it happens. The SA-X with each of these suits should at least be resistant to Phazon madness. Actually, I think if we let the SA-X use the Phazon Suit, then that means there wouldn't be a Dark Samus, so I don't think we can use that one. Regardless, I mean, Samus beat Dark Samus, so there's absolutely no reason SA-X shouldn't be able to. It just depends on what gear we give it, just like it depends on what gear we let Samus herself use to fight Dark Samus. The hypothetical fight so far has been pretty silly, it's like putting an alligator and a person against each other. "Well, the alligator has to win, because we're not letting the person use guns, so, yea, alligator wins," when we all know that's pretty stupid.

P4wn4g3 posted...
Oh also there is no reason to think that the X successfully copied everything that Samus is, seeing as they were removed before they had a chance to break down her nervous system. I imagine they'd have to get pretty intimate with her brain in order to fully absorb her memories.

This is further supported by how maniacal the SA-X acts, and how it doesn't entirely look like Samus.


Well the primary thing here is that the X didn't really need Samus, it just needed the Chozo Suit, which the SA-X both has and made a good number of copies of.
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#70P4wn4g3Posted 10/13/2012 2:28:22 AM
The thing about the X is I haven't a clue as to how it copies Samus's suit. I mean organic parts is one thing, but replicating the entire suit and Samus means either some complex mimicry or that the X can become technology. You do get some of your upgrades in the form of Core X power ups, so maybe they can copy technology? It confuses the hell out of me. If we were to assume that they can either clone or mimic technology, they could probably do the same with the PED given that they could figure it out somehow, but seeing as their learning process is assimilation, they don't have this technology around to clone. Even if they did, the SA-X would still have to be infected in the same manner as Samus was (assuming organs and such aren't a problem here), or else use the same technology as the GF troopers that didn't rely on self-replicating Phazon. If this was the case, the SA-X would be relying on Dark Samus to throw Phazon at it so it could fill up its trooper PED.

Even if you want to give the SA-X all of Samus's toys, you would have to replicate the incident where SA-X decided to infect Samus in order to really give the SA-X a fighting chance to kill Dark Samus, otherwise it would be unable to do so and at best this would end in a stalemate.

I'm not convinced the same could be said about Dark Samus killing the SA-X, seeing as it is vulnerable to conventional weaponry.