Why do so many people love Fusion and hate Prime 3?

#51wiiking96Posted 2/2/2013 9:55:42 PM
Shah138 posted...
Ridleys not just a mindless beast, he's intelligent.

Yes, but we don't know to what extent. For all we know he's prone to going on rampages when he loses his temper. He probably is still very much a beast.

I think he'd agree that having more than one of him would be beneficial.

But what if the other one tries to usurp him? It could happen.

And gaining control? The Pirates don't ever have him on a leash so there isn't an issue of losing control. If for whatever reason there is an issue they could just stick a machine on him to take care of it.

That's because that already have control of him or at least his loyalty. It was never stated that Ridley created the Space Pirates; he probably wasn't there original leader. I bet than Ridley is just one of a species that the Space Pirates bred specifically to be intelligent, and that it was very hard to do so.
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#52Shah138Posted 2/2/2013 10:14:59 PM(edited)
Yes, but we don't know to what extent. For all we know he's prone to going on rampages when he loses his temper. He probably is still very much a beast.

He's the one that made the robot Ridley you fight at the end of Zero Mission.

But what if the other one tries to usurp him? It could happen.

They could make the clone not as smart as Ridley and limit what it can do.

That's because that already have control of him or at least his loyalty. It was never stated that Ridley created the Space Pirates; he probably wasn't there original leader. I bet than Ridley is just one of a species that the Space Pirates bred specifically to be intelligent, and that it was very hard to do so.

Breed more Ridleys for combat purposes. They don't have to be intelligent, like the Korrakks. And again, no matter what we've still never heard of the Pirates cloning Ridley or anything else, bar the Metroids.
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#53krazykillerkowPosted 2/3/2013 6:12:06 AM
Shah138 posted...
Yes, but we don't know to what extent. For all we know he's prone to going on rampages when he loses his temper. He probably is still very much a beast.

He's the one that made the robot Ridley you fight at the end of Zero Mission.


But apparently he got bored and didn't finish the legs.
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#54King-gamerPosted 2/3/2013 9:50:25 AM
I loved both so I don't know what's to hate. I will say that Prime 3 was a lot easier than Fusion though, at least on normal mode. Even on veteran I'd say Fusion was harder. "normal" Mode should have been called "baby mode". It's stupidly easy. Veteran is normal mode and hyper mode is hard mode.
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#55kirbymastahPosted 2/3/2013 10:19:59 AM
What is up with people saying fusion is linear and corruption isn't? this is ridiculously flawed logic.

Why? People exaggerate that you're stuck in the sector every time, which is completely false. You are generally free to explore other sectors whenever you want. You also aren't told where to go about half the time, and all of those times you don't even know HOW to get there. The computer even tells you that you have to explore on your own for the level 1-3 locks, doesn't know where nightmare is, that you have to find what's causing the power outage, and so on.

Saying fusion is linear is a contradiction. There have been COUNTLESS people who have gotten lost in fusion. Yes, you cannot break the main sequence of items, that just means it's very well programmed. I get confused by people when they say that prime 1+2, super, and ZM have many, many "sequence breaks" and that makes them GOOD. (heck, ZM doesn't even have sequence breaks because it doesn't even have an intended sequence to break in the first place). On a room-by-room basis, Fusion is very very non-linear, there are plenty of branching paths, hidden tunnels, and so on.

Now let's look at prime 3. The entire first part of the game is ridiculously linear. There is basically one forced path in the olympus and norion. We look at jungle bryyo, and you notice that it is literally one path as well, and you go in a circle to disable the two turrets. Look at Elysia, and you notice that you go on one reeeeeally long linear path, forward to get boost ball, go back on that same path to get plasma beam, go forward AGAIN on that SAME PATH to talk to the aurora unit, and so on. Add on really repetitive ziplining and elevators all over the place... It's pretty ridiculous. And yes, there are other doors you can enter, but they are instantly dead-ends in prime 3, and don't lead to any upgrades.

Which, by the way, expansions in prime 3 aren't well-hidden at all (80% of them are flat out insultingly in-your-face).

"people prefer fusion only because it's 2d"

I don't see this logic at all either. The 2d and 3d metroids are so different that whichever you prefer comes purely down to personal preference
#56kirbymastahPosted 2/3/2013 10:22:30 AM
Now, don't get me wrong, I love prime 3, but it is definitely one of the lesser metroids in my opinion. Many things that prime 3 does wrong:

1. Hyper Mode

The fact that you get hyper mode so early outclasses everything you have. You got plasma beam? screw that, hyper mode. You got missiles? They're useless since you have hyper mode. Basically every weapon you have is pretty much useless just because you have hyper mode, besides nova beam + x-ray combo (which is more situational).

And before you tell me that you can't spam hyper mode infinitely... You're invincible in hyper mode. You can go in hyper mode, and exit it without losing any health as long as you don't use phazon. And if you use phazon on enemeis, they almost always drop health for you to pick up anyways. And if you're going to use a lot of phazon, then get corrupted on purpose. The game gives you tons of caches for drops, so outside of bosses, health is never a problem. IF you know how to manage hyper mode, you can spam it all day.

2. Major Upgrades

MP3 has a ton of great, cool ideas. Tons of grapple ideas, use of your ship, and so on. However, they really fall flat on their face. They're honestly useless. Ship missiles are a great idea... but you can't use them anywhere on elysia, and you can't use them on pirate homeworld until you disable the defense system, which by then they're not needed anymore. Ship grapple is used a total of 4 times in the game in elysia, and that's the only use it has for beating the game (yes, you can use it two more times in bryyo, which is cool). Grapple voltage is merely another item to "unlock doors" and doesn't have any use for combat. Hyper Grapple is even worse. Missiles and plasma beam are near useless in combat due to the existence of hyper mode. Seeker missiles are literally useless in combat, as locking 5 missiles on one enemy takes far too long to make it worth it.

The only weapons that are well-implemented IMO are nova beam and x-ray visor, due to the useful OHKO combo that they have that outclasses even hyper mode.

3. Expansions.

As I mentioned, expansions are flat-out in your face. You hardly need to explore at all, and if you miss a lot of them, then you honestly are an absolute idiot. The game practically force-feeds you e-tanks and missile tanks. The other problem with expansions is what I mentioned above in point #2. You know all 255 of those missiles you collect? Yeah, you're never going to use more than 10, outside of the seeker missile maze in east elysia (and that's only because there are like 5 seeker missile doors you have to blow up). Know those ship missile tanks you collect? I already said, you're never using them ever again in elysia, and you're only using them exactly once in pirate homeworld (which is a required use anyways).

4. Linearity

I already covered this, but MP3 is by far the most linear metroid game ever, besides Other M of course. THIS is a case where the game literally tells you where to go at every point in the game, unlike Fusion where it only happens about half the time (try to argue against that, fusion-haters). And even if you turn off the lol hint-system, it doesn't even make a difference.

The room-by-room basis is also incredibly linear. There isn't that much to explore in the areas of mp3, and even if there was stuff to explore for expansions, what the hell is the use for them anyways? Expansions in fusion were actually useful.

5. Loading Times

'Nuff said.

Now, is it all bad? No, certainly not. MP3 has its great moments for sure. The wii controls work well, besides spring ball (Screw you spring ball, you ruin speedruns everywhere). The boss fights have tons of variety, are fast-paced and fun, and have great music to boot (but... you pretty much never use your other upgrades in bosses, unlike in mp1+2). Bryyo is really fun overall, due to its variety, art style, and so on. Elysia is incredibly pretty. The graphics do not disappoint.
#57Hawke0(Topic Creator)Posted 2/3/2013 8:37:53 PM
Yes, MP3 is more linear. But that doesn't make Fusion any less linear.
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#58leopoldsharkPosted 2/4/2013 12:11:49 AM
All of the Primes were linear as in they always had an intended order in which you collected the main powerups. Prime 2 and 3 just seem more linear because the player generally goes to one part of the world, completes it, then goes to the next, with only a few instances where you need to revisit a previous area. Prime 3 is just much more glaring because you are told exactly where you need to go next. Prime 2 did it correctly, they only told you what you needed to do, but not where they were.

However, all 3 Primes still give you the option to let you roam free. You can choose to go get your next main powerup, or you can run around and collect extra expansions and energy tanks to better prepare yourself for what lies ahead. It is still "linear", but it still gives you a sense of freedom, which is why I like it.

I think of the Primes, Prime 3 had the best all-around environments (only thing that really sucked was Bryyo Ice). I also like the inclusion of the ship, although there could have been more instances of the ship being used in combat. The addition of the Grapple Lasso is neat, although it was somewhat excessive and could have seen better combat use. The level of voice-acted cutscenes and additional characters was not too excessive and complimented the other methods of Metroid storytelling (lore scans and pirate data) well, although some might disagree. I hope these things are expanded upon in the next Metroid.
#59kirbymastahPosted 2/4/2013 7:30:55 AM(edited)
Errr no, prime 3 is more linear than prime 1+2 and fusion. fact. Just look at the freaking map and play the game again. Play freaking elysia, and you'll see that the room layout is literally one weaving line.

"Prime 2 and 3 just seem more linear because the player generally goes to one part of the world, completes it, then goes to the next, with only a few instances where you need to revisit a previous area."

Prime 1 is less obvious, but still has a similar structure to prime 2+3. You go to chozo ruins, then phendrana, then phazon mines, with a few backtracks in between and a major boss in each.
#60Big_IsaacPosted 2/5/2013 3:07:38 AM(edited)
Fusion is my favorite game in the series and Corruption comes in at number 2.
the main reason I prefer Fusion is that every slightest thing you do in that game feels rewarding in itself. the controls and handling are flawless and the sound design is among the best I've ever seen in any game.

then there's the atmosphere. you know, it's very telling about the quality of a game's atmosphere building when one of the things that scare people the most isn't the sight of the villain, but the sound of its freaking footsteps
the game creates a more oppressive and thick atmosphere than even some actual survival horror games, like RE4-6. I'm not sure whether that statement is a compliment to Fusion or a slam against RE, but either way it's something that makes the game even more memorable.

and finally the story. yes, the competition is very very easy, but Fusion has the best story in the franchise regardless. it builds on Samus' character more than any other individual game did and has the best and most well-executed explanation for Samus' power loss so far


Corruption is still fantastic (I wouldn't rank it at Nr.2 if it wasn't), but Fusion is unchallenged at the top.
one thing the two seem to have in common is that they both represent a radical departure of conventions its predecessors set up. Fusion does away with some of the open world exploration and all of the sequence breaking in favor of a prominent narrative and a focus on survival horror -esque atmosphere, while Corruption ditches the isolation and many of the series' established staple upgrades in favor of its hypermode gimmick and switching between multiple planets
they both get a lot of **** for the changes they made, but honestly that's another thing I like about them. IMO for a game it's a million times more preferable to do its own thing even if it means to tone down some of the series's staple elements than to completely stagnate and regress like some other game I could mention.
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