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Hold on a second...

#1LegendofLink17Posted 5/30/2012 9:18:31 AM
Its been a few months since I've beaten the game, so now im working on a 100% run, and people are complaining about lack of exploration?? I'm not using a guide, and finding all of these pieces of heart, getting materials, and searching for goddess cubes has shown me all new little places in the game I didn't know existed. Little caves, cliffs, ledges, or just corners in certain areas keep popping up, even up in the sky. How is there no exploration? Do you people remember OoT? Where was there to go that gave so much more exploration than this game
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Mentsch tracht, Gott lacht.
#2mriswith70Posted 5/30/2012 9:24:16 AM
Compare Hyrule Field to the sky. Put some way of opening hidden holes in the sky where there are no islands to mark them, so you have to continually fly around doing some special thing, or one of a variety of things, to open them, or more likely, do have nothing special result 95% of the time, and it would be the same.
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REJOICE. For very bad things are about to happen. ~Richard, Looking For Group
#3LegendofLink17(Topic Creator)Posted 5/30/2012 9:28:01 AM
So opening up holes is exploration compared to all the little islands? And what about the 3 regions? That's mainly what I'm talking about
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Mentsch tracht, Gott lacht.
#4zinformantPosted 5/30/2012 9:32:07 AM
You're on the money somewhat. I, too, would argue OoT did not have much additional exploration than this game. See, folks say the lack of connection between the three ground worlds hurt the game. Isn't the sky the connection? That I don't understand. However, what folks also complain about, which is valid, is that this sky is empty. The Great Sea was filled with islands and whatnot. The sky has a few rocks.

I'd argue that folks want an expansive world and that this translated in Zelda games to negative space. TP had this, and that is part of the reason I found it tedious and boring. Before the third dungeon was senseless platforming and too much space to walk around on around the lake. This game lacks that, and, so, it must not be expansive enough.
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I never cared abot justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero...if an enemy appears in front of me, I will destroy it!
#5Da DoodPosted 5/30/2012 9:54:31 AM
I think the problem is that the surface areas are designed more like action stages rather than breathing cities with people and stuff. When you get there, you're encouraged to solve the maze.

Of course, if you consider exploration solely as a post-game thing, then even Metroid: Other M has awesome exploration since the whole station is open for you with 80+ items to find. I guess people's issue with SS is that you can't do a lot of side stuff as you advance the story.

That said, I had my fun exploring SS. Unlike Twilight Princess, where the rewards for exploring were always the same (Piece of Heart, Poe, and... that's it), in SS there were unique medallions and treasures everywhere.

Also, nice Zero 4 quote zinformant.
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And this time!
#6The_BonesPosted 5/30/2012 9:54:56 AM
Other than Lanayru I didn't feel this game had much in terms of optional exploration. I didn't have any trouble getting 100% without a guide either. OoT did actually have a lot of optional things to explore if you aren't just looking at Hyrule field too.
#7Muljo StphoPosted 5/30/2012 10:59:46 AM(edited)
I've never been terribly impressed with OoT's secret grottoes either. In LttP when we found some sort of secret cave entrance somewhere there was no telling what we would find. And by that I don't just mean the treasure at the end. I'm talking about the layout of the cave itself and what sort of place it seemed to be. There was no template.

But in OoT most (maybe not all but definitely a lot) of the secrets were the same small cave with a couple puddles and some bushes and a Sheikah stone and a treasure chest and a fish and some bugs. Every time it's just "Oh, this place again." At that point, they might as well have just skipped the transition to a cave by putting the treasure chest on the map when you uncover the secret spot.

I felt like TP kind of rectified that problem somewhat. TP has locations designed into the layout of the map that are interesting and you find treasures there instead of transitioning into some cave. It also has several caves of its own though, and the caves have some variety. There is one location that's like a secret grotto but bigger and filled with enemies. There's that cave by Eldin Bridge that looks like some sort of aborted attempt at a Fire Temple. There's that ice cave with the sliding block puzzles. There are those two abandoned / caved-in mine shaft caves. There's also the Cave of Ordeals but I hate the concept of that particular cave because it's literally just the same room reloaded over and over again with new enemies (except for the fairy rooms and the few rooms that require a tool to get any further). Cave of Ordeals (and everything similar to it in any other game out there) is ****ing tedious and lame.

TWW technically has lots of stuff (49 ****ing islands, and you can fish hidden treasures out of the water around each island) but it feels extremely underwhelming because of the disproportionate size of the whole map. TWW's islands are contained within less than 4% of the map, and only about half a dozen or so of the islands are actually important and bigger than a small house. There are a few things out on the open sea, sure, but for the most part that map was just lots of dead space.

The sky in SS is, at the very least, much more compact than TWW's Great Sea. They underused it, sure, but you can zip across it and get where you're going pretty quickly (especially with the speed gates that are conveniently located on each of the common routes).

In a way, the point about the sky being functionally similar to OoT's field is a fair one. Both act as the central hub area of each game's map layout. Both contain at least one location within the hub area. Both contain a number of gateways around the edges of the hub to connect to the side areas. Side areas are typically a straight path to some end goal (plus a branch off to a different end goal, maybe). The differences are that 1) OoT has more side areas while SS has bigger/longer side areas, and 2) OoT added in shortcut portals between various spots in the side areas to give the illusion of a more interconnected world.

in SS there were unique medallions and treasures everywhere.

That's a fair point too. They need random things to mix it up and make the treasure actually feel like treasure and not just "Oh look, more money..." (although SS was also successful in making money into something that you actually use instead of just accumulating it). They also need a functional purpose for all that shiny non-money junk. Collecting parts for the boat in PH and the train in ST was not the answer to that. Using things to upgrade tools and potions in SS was a nice touch though.

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"This ain't like fieldwork. You never have to notarize a man and kill him in triplicate. Well... Almost never..." - Ruby
#8The_BonesPosted 5/30/2012 11:02:16 AM
I consider the overworld of SS to function more like the world of Demon's Souls. The sky is basically like the nexus and you can select which area in a specific region to go to from there but always have to return to the hub in order to go to a different region. OoT had a lot more than just the holes in the ground to explore as well.
#9superal1966Posted 5/30/2012 12:18:22 PM
I think it's how you explore rather than what secrets areas lie ahead.

Riding around the OoT Hyrule Field really felt like exploration. Flying around in SS feels more of a method of getting from A to B.
#10Muljo StphoPosted 5/30/2012 2:39:19 PM
Well that was SS's way of adding shortcuts to disguise the format. We can go back down to any point in the branch where we've already activated the statue, but before you got it to that point you had to start at the farthest edge of the area and work your way over there. (I don't know anything about Demon's Souls. Maybe that's all true for that game as well?)
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"This ain't like fieldwork. You never have to notarize a man and kill him in triplicate. Well... Almost never..." - Ruby