I'm hoping the next Zelda game has spells and/or a magic rod

#1BowserCuffsPosted 2/4/2013 11:22:56 PM
To me, Link has always been the quintessential "Magic Knight." He could use magic items and spells in addition to his sword play.

Zelda 2 had some very interesting spells, though I generally consider Link to the Past to have what I'm looking for.

2 magic rods, one that freezes enemies, one that burns enemies. Magic arrows are kinda close but not a good replacement in my opinion. Light/Silver arrows should be a no-brainer though.

Two magic canes. One that creates blocks for block puzzles, the other that makes you temporarily invincible.

The magic cape, which makes you invisible (and also invisible) and ghost-like. That was cool, too.

And of course, the three medallions, which were probably outright spells that only the wielder of the Master Sword could perform.

Ether, summoning the frozen mountain winds to freeze your enemies.
Bombos, summoning the flames of hell to burn your enemies.
Quake, summoning the inherent magic of the earth to do... weird things to enemies around you.

Lately, though, it seems like the developers have been phasing out magic, and as far as offensive magic goes, it's non-existent. The Dominion Rod was a damn shame. And apparently, in Spirit Tracks (which I haven't played yet), Link gets a rod that... makes sand rise up. Useful, very useful, but underwhelming.

Granted, I'm happy for the return of the swordbeam as a staple ability rather than a bonus unlockable. I don't really even care if the magic meter returns or not, I just want actual magic back.

At least Windwaker HD is coming out, let's see if it's simply upgraded Windwaker or if it brings back some things that got cut out due to development hell.
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#2anonymous4everPosted 2/5/2013 2:01:50 AM
I actually agree with all of this.
#3Czar_YoshiPosted 2/5/2013 11:37:50 AM
I agree.
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#4CakeOfLiesPosted 2/5/2013 12:39:48 PM
Ahh... I remember the Sand Wand. I played with that thing even when there wasn't any sand. xD

But I totally agree with your idea. I think the Fire Rod should definitely be in the next 3D Zelda.
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#5Muljo StphoPosted 2/5/2013 5:33:20 PM
Two magic canes. One that creates blocks for block puzzles, the other that makes you temporarily invincible.


This made me want to mention TMC's magic cane, which made me think of this comic:
http://www.awkwardzombie.com/index.php?page=0&comic=030308


Anyway, yeah, they could come up with items that have magical properties with or without also including a magic meter... Actually, they have made quite a few magical items without a magic meter (although they felt the need for whatever asinine reason to treat rupees as a magic meter for the magic armor in TP). But it seems like they leaned away from pure magic like AoL's spells or LttP's medallions and started restricting more and more of Link's use of magic to enchanted weapons and tools. And they've been skimping and haven't given us an arsenal that's even remotely comparable to the one in LttP in... well, any other game in the series.
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#6Hirokey123Posted 2/5/2013 6:28:29 PM
I agree I really miss the magic meter and Link being able to cast magic spells. I mean yeah Link isn't a Wizard type guy (even Ghirahim said as much) but I don't think it's wrong for him to be able to cast a few spells. He's got magic blood he might as well make some use out of it.
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#7Alan_00XPosted 2/6/2013 12:02:13 AM
Return of magic would be cool, but I think magic should have a cooldown (recharges with time) like in games like Diablo II instead of having magic pots everywhere. Also, magic should have more of a role in combat like having fire magic slowly burning away wooden armor and shields.

Also, cane of somaria in 3D would be pretty sweet if you could climb the blocks themselves. Just imagine how that could totally change the design of dungeons, towns, puzzles, etc.
#8MileRunPosted 2/6/2013 12:22:07 AM
Alan_00X posted...
Return of magic would be cool, but I think magic should have a cooldown (recharges with time) like in games like Diablo II instead of having magic pots everywhere. Also, magic should have more of a role in combat like having fire magic slowly burning away wooden armor and shields.


I don't think a cooldown period is necessary for Legend of Zelda-type magic. On average, Legend of Zelda magic is just small stuff like flinging a fireball at a torch or making a little platform in a river with an Ice Arrow. Having a cooldown period would just make puzzle rooms more annoying.

If they had something like Din's Fire or those medallions from ALttP again, you could put a cooldown period on those, I guess, but considering that they generally kill any vulnerable enemy in one hit anyways, I don't think a cooldown period would be much more effective than just having a high Magic Meter cost.

Also, Fire Arrows did do some residual burn damage, at least in Ocarina of Time. Fire also sometimes burns the bandages off of Gibdos, turning them either into Stalfos or Re-Deads depending on the game, if that counts.
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#9Muljo StphoPosted 2/6/2013 9:24:10 AM(edited)
And those big spells that we've seen haven't exactly been big on instant gratification so far anyway. If you activate Din's Fire or Bombos or whatever, you're in for a good 5 seconds or so of unskippable animation showing him performing some warmup action (while the enemies remain frozen in time for you, if i remember correctly) before the actual effect of the spell happens. That already works to deter you from using it too often. We don't need it to also have a cooldown period.

However.... What if it's not so much a property of the spell itself as it is just making use of a basic gameplay mechanic? Suppose they use the stamina system again. Link casts a major spell like that and it costs him... 60% of his stamina (or something around there)? I don't think I'd give that a second thought.

Or they could just toss out every way they've handled magic before and put a new system together from scratch. My thought would be to have each individual medallion (or whatever sort of trinket they represent the spells with) feature several alternate functions based on context. Suppose also that there are at least two item buttons: B for pulling out the item to activate motion controls like in SS, and dpad-down for one-touch or hold-to-charge type controls like the sword and other items in the other games. Equipping the fire medallion to B would give you access to something based on motion controls, possibly with different contexts like throwing or rolling the bombs in SS, or maybe it could even just be something like you wield your sword with a fire enchantment on it. Equipping it to dpad-down and simply pressing it would activate a different spell, like throwing a fireball or something simple like that. And equipping it to dpad-down and holding it would build up a charge that would be unleashed as something big like Din's Fire.

And then I would also add on to this system a bunch of item combination options like in TP. Combine that fire medallion with the bow to get your fire arrows. Combine it with bombs to get a more powerful (and possibly incendiary) blast. Combine it with the boomerang to make it hurt most enemies instead of stunning them.

And actually, if the stamina system is used they would probably have various stamina costs associated with all of these options, like 33% per use for the simpler spells and scaling up to 66% per use for the biggest stuff (or something like that).

You know what, now that I think of it, the stamina meter basically is our new magic meter. It just applies to other things besides magic as well. SS Link's "magic" (the sword beam and the two types of spin attack) used stamina to keep us from spamming certain moves too much, and that's all that they'd really need a magic meter for as well.
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#10BowserCuffs(Topic Creator)Posted 2/6/2013 8:41:12 PM(edited)
Actually, I don't think the sword beam used stamina at all. Instead, what it used was mostly charge up time.

And your reward for getting through most of Hero Mode is reducing that to nothing.

EDIT:

You know, I actually have a complaint about Din's Fire.

Most of my playthroughs of Ocarina of Time ended up with me only using the spell twice or so. My most recent runthrough, I decided to focus heavily on magic (always keeping a full stock of green/blue potions, for one thing)

However, I've arrived to a stunning conclusion about Din's Fire.

It sucks.

It deals damage to an area of enemies. Okay, that's fine.

Except... half the enemies in the game seem to be flat-out immune to it, and that's not even getting into things like fire enemies which I won't use it on.

The damage it deals is... pretty pitiful as well. Okay, so it sets enemies on fire, that's kinda neat. I guess.

It seems like a better use of MP is to use a fully charged spin attack. Or to use fire arrows (or ice arrows if you have them)

Also I'm pretty serious about lots of enemies being immune to it. In particular, bosses seem to be annoyingly immune to it -- even when vulnerable.
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