It's the content that failed more than anything else.

#1SolidKnightPosted 7/18/2013 3:49:38 AM
I know people like to harp on the motion controls and Fi. I know I do. However, those two things aren't really what I find displeasing about this game. I could easily put up with both if the content of said game was actually something I enjoyed. After all, I enjoy Demon's Souls and Dark Souls even though those two games have actual input bugs (sometimes an input is dropped, delayed, or queued incorrectly).

You see, it's the content that I find most displeasing. The introduction failed to capture my interest. It was too long. It made me have to sit through story content that was, quite frankly, grade-school level drama (which regrettably is all the story amounted to be). Further, it made you essentially do uninteresting chores. I don't think anyone really enjoys doing odd tasks from random people at the very start of the game. I know they're trying to establish a certain perception of Link but honestly, they don't have to. You can figure it all out by panning the camera around. Hell, the artwork itself pretty much gives you all you need to know.

Besides the intro, the game became obsessed with collecting more and more sub-items in order to perform a task. Now, I know historically this has been done in other Zeldas but it seems more apparent and more plentiful in Skyward Sword. I almost feel like I'm playing a twisted version of Mario where I'm hunting down special coins to unlock stars or something. To make matters worse, the game comes up with the most contrived ways of making you collect something. It's not uncommon for a character to force you to collect something before he gives you what he needs. It's like: "Hey, I know the world is in danger of being destroyed but... I really need you to pick up some stuff from the supermarket. Only then will I give you the item you need to stop the apocalypse." Really? Nintendo couldn't think of anything else?

This brings me to the environments. It's find to reuse an area if something significant is going to happen to it. It's not find to reuse an area then put up artificial barriers all over the place just so you don't complete the task quickly. You go into a silent realm and it's the same thing as the regular world only there are magic walls everywhere so you can't just go burn through the task. To me, that comes off as lazy. They didn't want to develop a new area so they just threw up barriers in an old one, recolored it, and thought it was good.

Another thing is the combat. The combat is interesting with the motion controls; however, the enemies are boring. The most common enemy in the game is the Bokoblin which literally just runs up to you then immediately guards. Where's the tension in that? I don't feel like I'm in danger if the enemy barely attacks. Then, of course, there aren't too many enemies that require other methods of killing or tactics beyond swiping the sword in the correct direction.

The puzzles and combat didn't require a lot of thought. I knew what to do all the time (and not just because the game always told me exactly what I needed to do). This made the dungeons a lot less interesting as I felt like I was plowing through them. Like and unstoppable dungeon-crawling juggernaut. It was like playing with cheat codes on after the novelty wore off. My mind wasn't being engaged. I was just going through the motions. There was no getting lost. There was no tension of being killed. There weren't any puzzles where I couldn't see the solution immediately. It was just brainless.

Really, a lot of the game just comes off as if they put minimal thought and effort into it. The game's content is filled with a bunch of video-game no-nos; most noteably the overt fetch-quest.

On the flip side, I liked some of the design and several artistic concepts but they were far away from overcoming all the other faults.
#2dam4rusPosted 7/18/2013 4:45:54 AM
I still find it funny, that all Zelda suffer from these poor design choices, but no one ever care about it, since SS came out.

I only played a few hours of Wind Waker, but the combat was something like this: "wait, parry, your winner!", Twilight Princess was something like this: "i will now teach you a technique that's effective against armored enemy, so be sure to use it on armored enemies!", then came around an armored enemy: "Helm Splitter, Helm Splitter, your winner!". So, what exactly does SS worse, than previous Zelda games?

As for the puzzles: the little time i spent with Wind Waker the puzzles were pretty clever and interesting, i must admit, but TP... come on, did anyone actually stopped to think about the "puzzles"? I breezed through all of the game's dungeon. Never ever did i actually had to stop and think. The only time i got lost was in the Sky Temple (that floating city with the annoying music, i can't remember it's name). I still have to finish SS, but the puzzles are not worse, than TPs. Also go and play Phantom Hourglass, if you think SS's puzzles suck. The game literally told you what to do in EVERY puzzle in the game.

Yet everyone forgets to mention, what SS does right... Like rupee actually having some use, more streamlined platforming (running, quick climb, etc.), 3 dimensional overworlds, that actually felt like dungeons instead of a big flat surface where you can ride or sail, difficulty, upgrade system, new creatures, etc.
#3EdwardDarkstarPosted 7/18/2013 5:52:08 AM
TC, solve this equation to find out how many stars I give your post.

1 star + 1 star - 2 star^50 = ?
The answer is:
- 1,125,899,906,824,622 stars
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Being forced to listen to some 10 year old rage in his mic on BO2.
#4SolidKnight(Topic Creator)Posted 7/18/2013 6:15:09 AM
dam4rus posted...
I still find it funny, that all Zelda suffer from these poor design choices, but no one ever care about it, since SS came out.


Were you around for Twilight Princess? Half of these complaints apply to it. Same goes for The Wind Waker. Twilight Princess was basically labeled as "boring and empty". I too am disappointed in that game albeit not as much as Skyward Sword. The Wind Waker has some of these faults but, for me, it didn't seem so overtly lazy. The Triforce Fetch quest and the sailing were the two biggest issues. The combat was easy but the mechanics were at least somewhat interesting. The Dark nuts were fun to fight. I agree with what you said about the parry system It was basically an auto-win button that didn't require much in terms of timing or reflexes.

Yet everyone forgets to mention, what SS does right... Like rupee actually having some use, more streamlined platforming (running, quick climb, etc.), 3 dimensional overworlds, that actually felt like dungeons instead of a big flat surface where you can ride or sail, difficulty, upgrade system, new creatures, etc.


I liked those aspects of Skyward Sword overall but they're overshadowed by a pile of poor game design choices and stale content.
#5dam4rusPosted 7/18/2013 2:28:08 PM
SolidKnight posted...


Were you around for Twilight Princess? Half of these complaints apply to it. Same goes for The Wind Waker. Twilight Princess was basically labeled as "boring and empty". I too am disappointed in that game albeit not as much as Skyward Sword. The Wind Waker has some of these faults but, for me, it didn't seem so overtly lazy. The Triforce Fetch quest and the sailing were the two biggest issues. The combat was easy but the mechanics were at least somewhat interesting. The Dark nuts were fun to fight. I agree with what you said about the parry system It was basically an auto-win button that didn't require much in terms of timing or reflexes.


Actually, no. I played Twilight Princess last year and i had blast with it, even with the mentioned poor design choices. I still think TP is a fantastic game and beats most modern game, but for me SS is more unique. I stopped playing Wind Waker after they announced the remake for Wii U, but i have to agree, Wind Waker just felt like a better game overall. For me every Zelda game is unique and the one i'm currently playing is always the best in the series, i'm just a sucker for the franchise or maybe just too bored by other AAA titles.
#6CatMutoPosted 7/18/2013 4:37:27 PM
You see, it's the content that I find most displeasing. The introduction failed to capture my interest. It was too long.


I played through the boring-ass, overly-long, repeated-crap-I-already-know introduction of Persona 4.
Comparing the 40 minutes of introduction Skyward gives us, that's like a light slap on the wrist.

And I agree with dam4rus, why are people complaining only now about Zelda games having bad contents? All the other Zelda games had bad contents, some worse for players and some not so bad for other players, yet nobody seems to care about those and focuses to hate on Skyward for that.
I might get the idea it's because 'they haven't improved anything for so long' and players want to see something new, but I will stand by it, I don't see anyone complaining about the Mario games still following the platformer rule they've had since the first one. I don't see people complaining about Pokémon rehashing itself over and over and over with its same concept like people complaining about Skyward.

As for Twilight Princess, I thought it was a very good game. Sure it had stupid and bad moments, particularly moments that were pointless - seriously, did anyone really care for Ilia? - or seemed insane to put it as they served no purpose. But it was still a fun and entertaining game.
Same with Wind Waker, even if the sailing was too much and tedious as hell, it still was fun to play.
There's always something to complain about in a game. Doesn't mean the game can't still be good and fun to play.

C-A
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#7SolidKnight(Topic Creator)Posted 7/18/2013 10:50:09 PM
CatMuto posted...
And I agree with dam4rus, why are people complaining only now about Zelda games having bad contents?


They aren't. These complaints were raised in previous games and it's like Nintendo stuck their fingers in their ears and just screamed "CAN'T HEAR YOU". I find it amusing that so many people think it's new. Like nobody every complained about a previous Zelda game before. I thought there was this whole Zelda-cycle thing you guys believed in. You can't claim nobody was complaining about previous Zelda games then say the Zelda cycle exists.
#8CatMutoPosted 7/19/2013 2:47:45 AM
I thought there was this whole Zelda-cycle thing you guys believed in.


Personally, I wouldn't specifically call it the Zelda cycle.
You can apply it to any game, a stand-alone game or a new game from a Series, and you'll find that part of the fanbase will love it unconditionally in the start. Another part of the fanbase will hate it with a passion, but without reason.
Then later everybody kind of calms down, actually plays the game and forms a proper opinion.

So... yeah, it's not bound to Zelda itself.
And while people have complained about Zelda games before, it just seems that with Skyward it seems to be the most.

C-A
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9 out of 10 voices are telling me I'm sane
Voice number 10 is humming the Chocobo Theme
#9Faliz18Posted 7/19/2013 1:39:23 PM
Agreed. I had a blast with TP despite it having similar flaws. This game, however, is horrible.
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#10Shadowfire14Posted 7/20/2013 2:53:14 AM
CatMuto posted...
I thought there was this whole Zelda-cycle thing you guys believed in.


Personally, I wouldn't specifically call it the Zelda cycle.
You can apply it to any game, a stand-alone game or a new game from a Series, and you'll find that part of the fanbase will love it unconditionally in the start. Another part of the fanbase will hate it with a passion, but without reason.
Then later everybody kind of calms down, actually plays the game and forms a proper opinion.

So... yeah, it's not bound to Zelda itself.
And while people have complained about Zelda games before, it just seems that with Skyward it seems to be the most.

C-A


First impressions are really powerful. The ones who unconditionally praise are the ones whose first impression was generally positive enough that they can ignore the negatives. I'd say that the one's that hate the game are the ones who found the negatives so overwhelming that it's hard to find anything positive. Considering that a lot of us have this idea in our heads that our opinion actually matters worth a damn, we all attempt to make our opinions known, and as tirades occur, each side starts to see the opposite side of the fence, and as they play on, they can start seeing other points of view.

This really is just the first time I can say I've ever noticed it myself because my initial reaction was just so overwhelmingly negative, and while I know why, I honestly can't justify it because, well, it is mostly based on gut feeling a personal experience that just isn't what I initially felt. I still maintain that this is probably the worst game I've played, gameplay wise, but that if anything, the game overall is passable, or at least not worth getting upset over or calling "bad."
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