Revengeance Difficulty Livestream

#141snake2410Posted 2/18/2013 2:03:04 AM
vgman94 posted...

"Well that's too bad! Keep trying!" That's not elitist? Not everyone has the energy or finds any use in spending too much time playing harder difficulties in their games unless they have something lacking in their lives - and I say that from personal experience. Trying to pretend that everyone else is not good enough just because you spend a larger amount of time playing is an elitist sentiment. Trying to say "too bad kid!" is like telling someone they suck for not being able to swim. It's crude, apathetic and a show of little concern for understanding other people's view points. Not everyone can lift 50 pounds, do you ever here someone saying "Well that's too bad kid, you're not trying hard enough"? There's also a trophy for being Revengeance, so they're trying to make it easier for completionists. The Wigs give you ammo, Blade Mode and a massive power boost, but you can still die on a couple of hits and still need to hit enemies multiple times.

If you don't like the wigs, don't use them. But don't act as if their existence if wrong. It doesn't change the meaning of the rank as the rank is based on combos, Zandatsus, time and if you get hit. The only effect the wigs would have on any one of those stats is time. Trying and failing for weeks to get better at a game is not a luxury many people have and it's also not very useful in the long term. "It's not like the entire game is super hard and is just a slap in the face if you're not in the 0.1% of gamers." Funny, because your comment does that better than the game. Implying that other people don't spend enough time to learn the game and to get within a higher range of skill as if this was a boot camp where we learn practical skills to save our lives is elitist, because what we're talking about is game difficulty. Something that has no practical use in our lives and something many people don't need to put themselves through to have fun. Catering to the elite just because of their warped views on difficulty and specifically it's important only alienates a larger portion of fans in a fanbase like this.

I completely agree with you. Its not like there is a leaderboard to show it. Just a trophy and if the designers wanted to make it so that special items couldn't have been used they WOULD HAVE. It is elitist to insist that they shouldn't be able to be used when the devs purposely allowed them to be used so that they didn't lock 98% of the people out of a trophy because they have more to their lives then just playing one game till they're better then that 98% and can do it.

Besides, being that this is a popular series to people other then hack and slash doesn't mean you completely lock all those fans who are the majority of the people who'll buy the game in the first place by making the game too difficult or locking out the bigger challenges by making them too hard.

The devs took the right route in this one. They catered to everyone in some way, if the elitist want to play it at its hardest then use the Konami code and start a new game on Revengeance difficulty and don't complain that it should be only for the most hardcore of hardcore people and aids for people not so 'gifted' shouldn't be able to complete it on its hardest.

I really respect Platinum for not going the Ninja Gaiden route and trying to cater the game to the hardcore thereby allowing you to play how you want.
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#142SugarGeneComboPosted 2/18/2013 2:24:36 AM
I don't agree with the developers, they should have a signifier that says "you used an item" and so it is not complete.

It's not a matter of saying that others *should* practice more, or that they *should* be better at the game. I'm saying that people should accept that there are better players out there, who should also be catered to. I know how good I am, and I know there are a million better players than me. I don't need a game to be designed just for me, and say "if there's anything in this game I can't do, then it's TOO HARD". I like Bayonetta, but I've never finished the hardest setting. Does that make it too hard? No! Just means I am not good enough. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with me for not being good enough, it's just a fact.
#143SugarGeneComboPosted 2/18/2013 2:37:45 AM
To expand my point; what you guys seem to be saying is:

You can clear the game with the wig, and get the trophy. And then you have the optional challenge remaining, for doing it without the wig. So everybody is a winner.

But if you take that to its logical conclusion; say somebody can only do it with the wig initially. They clear the game, get the S rank, get the trophy.

Then one day they get better at the game, and decide to try without the wig.

After struggling for weeks of practice, they finally do it! Wow, so proud! What an achievement!

No reward.

In what world does that make any sense?

Why shouldn't people get a pat on the back for improving like that? It's not as though people just pick up a game and instantly are just "better" at it, and they have the ability to ace it right away. These things take practice, and I just believe it should be rewarded in some way. It's not an insult to those who are not good enough to do it, it just makes that extra challenge actually acknowledged.
#144ReceiverxWisdomPosted 2/18/2013 2:51:35 AM(edited)
Taken directly from a facebook quote I posted: " I think they should've did the rankings in a manner where you couldn't use new game plus items on difficulties you haven't beaten yet, you can only use it on difficulties / stages you have beaten and that way you can't cheese your way through higher levels. I believe the god of war games did something similar to this if I'm not mistaken."

Yeah I don't agree with causals saying "it's okay". Some people do want a challenge out of their games...and if we (hardcore gamers) had to do it, YOU HAVE to do it. There is no special magical chair for you inexperienced to sit in when it comes to cranking up difficulty.

Armstrong knocking 5 rations out of you won't help much even with wigs equipped....sorry to break that to you.
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#145SugarGeneComboPosted 2/18/2013 3:01:55 AM
Well I don't have a problem with less skilled players. I don't care how good anybody is, I'd like games to cater for everybody, where possible. But to say that everybody should be able to do everything in a game, and unlock everything, and achieve every trophy - no matter how bad they are at the game... doesn't make sense to me. That's why there are these challenges, you have the very simple ones for the majority of people, then you gradually have steeper and steeper challenges, to the point where you are only dealing with a few hundred people who are likely to be able to do it. That's fine with me, and I'm happy to not be in that top slot, I can look at players who are that good and be inspired. I don't feel the need to say "Hand me a cheat so I can do it too!" it would be meaningless. Some of the challenges in Vanquish look plain silly to me, but I have no compulsion to say it should be simpler, so that *I* can do it too. I leave it to others.
#146obliviondollPosted 2/18/2013 4:53:47 AM
Reading through big chunks of this thread has made me reconsider a few things.

Initially, I would have said that the wigs are fine because you don't have to use them.

They're basically cheats, though, and when you're using a built-in cheat, the game SHOULD be disabling trophies for that run. So yeah, you can go through and get a no-damage S Rank on the entire Revengeance difficulty because you had infinite blade mode and ripper mode.

...but it won't give you the trophy (or trophies). A casual player will still be able to snap a photo/screenshot and say "look, I beat Revengeance mode" and be proud of that achievement, but they won't be rewarded for having to cheat their way through. The actually hardcore players, or those casuals willing to invest the time to learn, will be able to work towards being able to actually EARN the trophy.

I actually think, with how this game works, allowing NG+ runs on Revengeance is still fair enough, it's only the wigs that I think should give you a no-trophy run. The devs have set it up so you have to use a cheat code to access Very Hard or Revengeance outside of NG+, so that's saying something.
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#147LAA51Posted 2/18/2013 8:16:22 AM
KennethBR posted...
LAA51 posted...
I've just been trying to best the final boss on revengeance difficulty, just wow... Blocking takes off 125% health, taking a hit means KO. On the 2nd phase, my record so far is taking off 2.2%, not sure how much needed to trigger QTE so I can progress to final phase, but yeah, S ranking this?! Are you mad?! It's insane enough to beat, Nevermind S rank! Don't even know if you get anything for beating on this difficulty, I'd expect inf health...
I salute anyone who manages to beat on this difficulty... I utterly bow down to anyone who can S rank this difficulty.

I assume you're referring to the fist fight. In that case, you need to get him down to 95% health, which is 120 hits. Alternatively, just restart the chapter and grab nanopaste -- you can end the fight at 99% by taking a hit to trigger the cutscene. Also, I don't believe that fight is ranked, so you don't need to worry about it ruining your no damage bonus.

Thanks for the advice but didn't work. Got him down to 94.1% before getting KOd to which I just died. Don't really want to restart chapter either for med kits, there's barely any on the last level anyway and just getting there and excelsius will make me probably lose them anyway. Will keep trying, but I don't seem to be getting anywhere...
#148LAA51Posted 2/18/2013 11:10:42 AM
Just beat him on revengeance! :D
I really was starting to think I would give up, ha ha.
I really reccommend you get repair paste, I'm not even sure you can win without it...?
Somehow, I found the last phase very very easy, compared to the previous ones.
#149istuffedsunnyPosted 2/18/2013 11:16:07 AM
Are there any new enemies in Rev mode? I know enemy placement is different but I've been spoiled by NG, which gives you entirely new enemies in the harder modes
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#150ukokira1Posted 2/18/2013 11:16:56 AM
Has anyone actually fully S ranked Reveangeance. Who is to say it won't give you the trophy?
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