About Jetstream Sam *spoilers*

#21malicemizerfanPosted 2/20/2013 11:35:20 PM(edited)
SAO_Southerner posted...
malicemizerfan posted...
SAO_Southerner posted...
He still had SOME cybernetic parts and some kind of suit to make him a bit better. I'd find it hard to believe he didn't have some decent enhancements considering this is the Metal Gear world, and normal humans aren't that capable. I think Raiden beating him had less to do with Raiden's new tech and more to due with Raiden finally accepting that he enjoyed killing and quit using his sword as a tool. He says as much in a codec conversation during the fight.


all his enhancements were to his right arm and legs. everything else was just down to him being a better swordsman. he killed 10 mafia enforcers equipped with automatic weapons, with just the sword, before it became a HF blade, and before he was a cyborg.

if they had the same level of tech behind them, raiden would never have stood a chance.


I think you're missing how Raiden evolved as a character with his full potential after realizing he was still Jack, and that he DID enjoy killing. Sam alludes to this even in the first fight at the beginning of the game. He says he's skilled, but he lacks "something."


guess that something is a body modified for nothing but fighting, can't even heal on it's own. and regressing to his psychotic former days(personally didn't use ripper mode during the fight)

Dunno about you, but I see getting so angry that I can't feel pain to win a fight is a loss because I lost control of myself.
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#22sephiroth068Posted 2/20/2013 11:46:35 PM
I guess in a way, he's very similar to Gray Fox seeing as how Gray Fox wasn't a full on cyborg either despite being known as the Cyborg Ninja...he wore an exoskeleton to augment his abilities to the point that they were in MGS1

Sam doesn't seem to be too different in this regard so all he really is is a slightly more advanced version of Gray Fox

Funny, seeing as how Sam really messed him up in the beginning, make me wonder if Gray Fox could've done the same to Raiden if he had the skill on the level of Sam (I like to think it does)

then again probably not since Gray Fox was after all the beginning of the Cyborg Ninja project so he wasn't nearly as advanced as MGS4 Raiden was and certainly not as advanced as Sam was I'm sure. His tech is likely far too out of date to keep up with Prologue Raiden (he'd basically be Sam to Gray Fox in terms of strength i suppose) even if he did have superior skill, though I'm sure itd be a he'll of a fight regardless (probably along the lines of upgraded Raiden vs Sam)
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Chapter 7, that's all you need to say to a Valkyria fan, they'll know what you mean-Celestial Damnation (see quote)
#23sevil_yelimsPosted 2/20/2013 11:46:50 PM
He would have killed Raiden either way. He did have cyborg enhancements and enhanced his sword to be high frequency so let's not jump around the fact that he improved himself outside of just technique.
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#24mikoledavidPosted 2/20/2013 11:53:52 PM
don't forget sam's sword sheath!!
#25LeBronHendrix(Topic Creator)Posted 2/21/2013 12:18:19 AM
I guess in a way, he's very similar to Gray Fox seeing as how Gray Fox wasn't a full on cyborg either despite being known as the Cyborg Ninja...he wore an exoskeleton to augment his abilities to the point that they were in MGS1

Didn't they try to say that Grey Fox was super human as a child or something?
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#26StriderTunaPosted 2/21/2013 12:21:31 AM
Dunno but he was part of some super soldier training project and he was good with knives.
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#27SuperheroicsPosted 2/21/2013 1:14:43 AM
They brainwashed and trained Grey Fox to be the "Perfect Soldier" aka Null in MGS: Portable Ops. He had some special abilities even back then, but he still got defeated by Big Boss.
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#28LightningSkyPosted 2/21/2013 1:29:55 AM
I know Sam had to die story wise but I felt bad that he died. This was a character with so much potential.
#29sephiroth068Posted 2/21/2013 1:38:19 AM
Gray Fox indeed showed some super abilities as Null and even a little bit before as a child, but yeah, given the era that it was, it wasnt perfect and even he could be defeated by someone normal and human like Big Boss
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Chapter 7, that's all you need to say to a Valkyria fan, they'll know what you mean-Celestial Damnation (see quote)
#30SAO_SouthernerPosted 2/21/2013 2:31:13 AM
malicemizerfan posted...
SAO_Southerner posted...
malicemizerfan posted...
SAO_Southerner posted...
He still had SOME cybernetic parts and some kind of suit to make him a bit better. I'd find it hard to believe he didn't have some decent enhancements considering this is the Metal Gear world, and normal humans aren't that capable. I think Raiden beating him had less to do with Raiden's new tech and more to due with Raiden finally accepting that he enjoyed killing and quit using his sword as a tool. He says as much in a codec conversation during the fight.


all his enhancements were to his right arm and legs. everything else was just down to him being a better swordsman. he killed 10 mafia enforcers equipped with automatic weapons, with just the sword, before it became a HF blade, and before he was a cyborg.

if they had the same level of tech behind them, raiden would never have stood a chance.


I think you're missing how Raiden evolved as a character with his full potential after realizing he was still Jack, and that he DID enjoy killing. Sam alludes to this even in the first fight at the beginning of the game. He says he's skilled, but he lacks "something."


guess that something is a body modified for nothing but fighting, can't even heal on it's own. and regressing to his psychotic former days(personally didn't use ripper mode during the fight)

Dunno about you, but I see getting so angry that I can't feel pain to win a fight is a loss because I lost control of myself.


He doesn't lose himself at all in the battle with Sam. That's kind of part of the plot, he learns to harness and control his Ripper persona. It's the real him in a way. He was basically holding back before due to morals and such. Sam never held back like that, which is what he was trying to teach Raiden. Hence why when he beat him up in the first fight he told him it was because "You use it as a tool. You deny your weapon it's purpose." Codec conversations have Raiden mentioning while completely calm that he has "jack back" and he occasionally when talking to his comrades during the Sam fight, says he can take him in his Jack tone of voice.

I think you're overrating Sam here. He's an absolute badass for sure. But the story of the game is partly about Raiden becoming one with his true self and evolving into a deadlier person, no longer holding himself back.
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