About Jetstream Sam *spoilers*

#31SAO_SouthernerPosted 2/21/2013 2:37:54 AM
sephiroth068 posted...
I guess in a way, he's very similar to Gray Fox seeing as how Gray Fox wasn't a full on cyborg either despite being known as the Cyborg Ninja...he wore an exoskeleton to augment his abilities to the point that they were in MGS1

Sam doesn't seem to be too different in this regard so all he really is is a slightly more advanced version of Gray Fox

Funny, seeing as how Sam really messed him up in the beginning, make me wonder if Gray Fox could've done the same to Raiden if he had the skill on the level of Sam (I like to think it does)

then again probably not since Gray Fox was after all the beginning of the Cyborg Ninja project so he wasn't nearly as advanced as MGS4 Raiden was and certainly not as advanced as Sam was I'm sure. His tech is likely far too out of date to keep up with Prologue Raiden (he'd basically be Sam to Gray Fox in terms of strength i suppose) even if he did have superior skill, though I'm sure itd be a he'll of a fight regardless (probably along the lines of upgraded Raiden vs Sam)


Naw, Gray Fox was a true Cyborg. His original body was blown apart in Zanzibar land by a landmine. Then his remains were recovered by Dr. Clark's crew and they had the exoskeleton grafted directly onto the body along with his body parts. That armor doesn't come off, it's a part of his body.
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#32WingZephyrPosted 2/21/2013 2:42:34 AM
Maybe Sam kept his body human, torso I mean, so that when he did get beat he could die a warrior's death and not be kept going with new bodies. The other fruit cakes had spare bodies.
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#33chaosflame108Posted 2/21/2013 1:46:57 PM
SAO_Southerner posted...
He still had SOME cybernetic parts and some kind of suit to make him a bit better. I'd find it hard to believe he didn't have some decent enhancements considering this is the Metal Gear world, and normal humans aren't that capable. I think Raiden beating him had less to do with Raiden's new tech and more to due with Raiden finally accepting that he enjoyed killing and quit using his sword as a tool. He says as much in a codec conversation during the fight.


Normal humans eh, so are we pretending Vamp doesn't exist?

The nanomachines only enhanced his healing, not his abilities; despite this, Vamp was able to keep up with, and even hand cyborg Raiden his ass.
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#34ChargedBusterPosted 2/21/2013 2:04:00 PM(edited)
to be fair he DID have an exoskeleton suit like, say, Gray Fox. The dude wasn't fighting you with just a cyborg arm. Yeah he was skillful, but he still was getting a huge boost to his strength, speed, and durability from the suit he was wearing...or did you think he can run and dodge bullets normally?

Unless he had nanomachines like vamp did, there's no reason a typical human could keep up.
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#35SAO_SouthernerPosted 2/21/2013 5:39:34 PM
chaosflame108 posted...
SAO_Southerner posted...
He still had SOME cybernetic parts and some kind of suit to make him a bit better. I'd find it hard to believe he didn't have some decent enhancements considering this is the Metal Gear world, and normal humans aren't that capable. I think Raiden beating him had less to do with Raiden's new tech and more to due with Raiden finally accepting that he enjoyed killing and quit using his sword as a tool. He says as much in a codec conversation during the fight.


Normal humans eh, so are we pretending Vamp doesn't exist?

The nanomachines only enhanced his healing, not his abilities; despite this, Vamp was able to keep up with, and even hand cyborg Raiden his ass.


Pretty sure Vamp, can't do what Raiden V1 did in the first level.
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#36chaosflame108Posted 2/21/2013 10:24:13 PM
SAO_Southerner posted...
chaosflame108 posted...
SAO_Southerner posted...
He still had SOME cybernetic parts and some kind of suit to make him a bit better. I'd find it hard to believe he didn't have some decent enhancements considering this is the Metal Gear world, and normal humans aren't that capable. I think Raiden beating him had less to do with Raiden's new tech and more to due with Raiden finally accepting that he enjoyed killing and quit using his sword as a tool. He says as much in a codec conversation during the fight.


Normal humans eh, so are we pretending Vamp doesn't exist?

The nanomachines only enhanced his healing, not his abilities; despite this, Vamp was able to keep up with, and even hand cyborg Raiden his ass.


Pretty sure Vamp, can't do what Raiden V1 did in the first level.



That's exactly my point, Vamp(a "normal" human) is able to keep up with cyborg Raiden; very easily actually.

Also, Raiden stopping Outer Haven is a much greater feat than tossing the Ray. Outer Haven carries multiple Rays in it's stock.
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I AM SATANAIL. HE WHO SHALL SET RIGHT THIS DISTORTED UNIVERSE!!!
#37malicemizerfanPosted 2/22/2013 8:26:06 PM
SAO_Southerner posted...
malicemizerfan posted...
SAO_Southerner posted...
malicemizerfan posted...
SAO_Southerner posted...
He still had SOME cybernetic parts and some kind of suit to make him a bit better. I'd find it hard to believe he didn't have some decent enhancements considering this is the Metal Gear world, and normal humans aren't that capable. I think Raiden beating him had less to do with Raiden's new tech and more to due with Raiden finally accepting that he enjoyed killing and quit using his sword as a tool. He says as much in a codec conversation during the fight.


all his enhancements were to his right arm and legs. everything else was just down to him being a better swordsman. he killed 10 mafia enforcers equipped with automatic weapons, with just the sword, before it became a HF blade, and before he was a cyborg.

if they had the same level of tech behind them, raiden would never have stood a chance.


I think you're missing how Raiden evolved as a character with his full potential after realizing he was still Jack, and that he DID enjoy killing. Sam alludes to this even in the first fight at the beginning of the game. He says he's skilled, but he lacks "something."


guess that something is a body modified for nothing but fighting, can't even heal on it's own. and regressing to his psychotic former days(personally didn't use ripper mode during the fight)

Dunno about you, but I see getting so angry that I can't feel pain to win a fight is a loss because I lost control of myself.


He doesn't lose himself at all in the battle with Sam. That's kind of part of the plot, he learns to harness and control his Ripper persona. It's the real him in a way. He was basically holding back before due to morals and such. Sam never held back like that, which is what he was trying to teach Raiden. Hence why when he beat him up in the first fight he told him it was because "You use it as a tool. You deny your weapon it's purpose." Codec conversations have Raiden mentioning while completely calm that he has "jack back" and he occasionally when talking to his comrades during the Sam fight, says he can take him in his Jack tone of voice.

I think you're overrating Sam here. He's an absolute badass for sure. But the story of the game is partly about Raiden becoming one with his true self and evolving into a deadlier person, no longer holding himself back.


And yet sam was still holding himself back through his refusal to go full cyborg. Raiden's holding back was easier to do because all he had to do was get angry.
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#38davisr89Posted 2/22/2013 10:05:56 PM
I think what Raiden was refering to was the fact that Sam didn't use gimmicks like Mistral's multiple arms or Monsoons magnetic limbs he still had a cyborg body that boosted his strength and speed but he still relied primarily on his own skill and technique
#39hungluo1989Posted 2/22/2013 10:09:46 PM
davisr89 posted...
I think what Raiden was refering to was the fact that Sam didn't use gimmicks like Mistral's multiple arms or Monsoons magnetic limbs he still had a cyborg body that boosted his strength and speed but he still relied primarily on his own skill and technique


Thank you lol
#40Ether101Posted 2/22/2013 11:27:24 PM
LeBronHendrix posted...
Am I the only one kinda bothered that he ended up being mostly human? Makes Raiden look kinda weak since he needed to be upgraded MORE to beat him.


Were you bothered by the fact that MGS4 implied that all gamers are idiots that need the developer to hold our hands to accomplish anything?
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