Raiden and Sam vs Dante and Vergil

#231Robin_MaskPosted 5/8/2013 7:53:41 PM
-BrokenSpiral- posted...
Exactly. Platinum decided to be more realistic rather than not. As you say, they could have but didn't. That doesn't mean we follow what-ifs: We go by what we have.

Are you even thinking about what you're saying? You have no point--No, I don't even know what point you're trying to make.


This is why I'm just thinking of stopping, since people are already refusing the fact that Dante and Vergil are way too strong for Raiden and Sam. It's just the gameplay relativity which LIMITS their actual moves. Something like UMVC3 does show more of their potential.


Oni Seraph posted...
Shows a big difference? Raiden and Sam block bullets and slice them in mid-air, but Virgil lines them up on the floor and its instantly the straw that proves he is infinitely superior? Despite the fact that he hasn't cut anyone or thing into a hundred pieces, never tossed anything hundreds of feet let alone a giant enemy as a parry. All this and he gets beat by Dante who can't do it either, but because Raiden and Sam never do it it is an instant loss.

That kinda sounds like grasping at straws to me.


Really? The DMC games don't call for such things. DMC is made to be stylish, MGR is meant to be over the top but reasonable given that the explanations do tell us it is happening and did happen in the story. It's like saying "the characters in Diablo III suck since they can't dodge", it's just gameplay.

Cutting anything into hundreds of pieces isn't amazing. MGR does it because the gameplay revolves around it, not DMC. We have seen Vergil and Dante slash from long distances and hit the target PRECISELY where they want.

We're talking about half-demons whose father is a demon that kicked too much ass that everyone knows their scent, this got talked about early in the topic. Their abilities are already far and above what a lot of other video game characters can do. It's only characters like Bayonetta and Ryu Hayabusa that are similar or above them.

In fact, the lore in games already states them to be beyond powerful. We don't even need to see it, we read it in the books the game carries or what other characters say.

I can just easily say, Ganondorf wins because only the Master Sword can truly beat him. Do we ever see him annihilate an entire city with a blast? No, but we know he can.

An extreme choice would be Diablo from Diablo III.
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#232RaidenSam(Topic Creator)Posted 5/8/2013 8:18:55 PM
What has Dante and Vergil done in DMC 3 than Raiden and Sam cannot beat? Speed and strength is not a problem for the cyborgs.
#233Robin_MaskPosted 5/8/2013 8:53:02 PM
RaidenSam posted...
What has Dante and Vergil done in DMC 3 than Raiden and Sam cannot beat? Speed and strength is not a problem for the cyborgs.


What is so hard to understand that they are supernatural? They're half-demons that curbstomp many high-tier demons and their bosses.

Diablo nor Ganondorf have done anything impressive either in games for example. But we know they are able to brush off any other boss in their entire games.
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#234RaidenSam(Topic Creator)Posted 5/9/2013 2:11:55 PM
And what stops Raiden or Sam of beating those demons? Is not impossible, hard, yes, but possible.
#235sworderPosted 5/9/2013 2:42:44 PM
RaidenSam posted...
What has Dante and Vergil done in DMC 3 than Raiden and Sam cannot beat? Speed and strength is not a problem for the cyborgs.


Teleport, instantly regenerate from being bisected, stop time, create invulnerable doppelganger, etc.

Vergil draws his sword so quick that he'd kill both Sam and Raiden before they realized what happened
#236Oni SeraphPosted 5/9/2013 3:10:48 PM(edited)
From: Robin_Mask | #231
This is why I'm just thinking of stopping, since people are already refusing the fact that Dante and Vergil are way too strong for Raiden and Sam. It's just the gameplay relativity which LIMITS their actual moves. Something like UMVC3 does show more of their potential.


We aren't straight out refusing it, you haven't proved any thing, you just keep saying they're stronger. Gameplay limits they're moves? Last I checked Vergil DT'd in the final fight and preformed a literal ****storm of nigh never ending teleporting slashes that covers the entire stage. How exactly is gameplay limiting their moves? If another game shows their potential then post a vid you feel appropriate of their abilities. But as of yet you shouldn't stop because of us but because thus far you've been flat out wrong.

Really? The DMC games don't call for such things. DMC is made to be stylish, MGR is meant to be over the top but reasonable given that the explanations do tell us it is happening and did happen in the story. It's like saying "the characters in Diablo III suck since they can't dodge", it's just gameplay.

Just gameplay? We're comparing everything they've done gameplay or cutscene. Nothing Dante and Vergil do any thing speed, strength or technique wise that Sam and Raiden couldn't match.

Cutting anything into hundreds of pieces isn't amazing. MGR does it because the gameplay revolves around it, not DMC. We have seen Vergil and Dante slash from long distances and hit the target PRECISELY where they want.

I'm not referring to actually cutting into hundreds of pieces but the speed they do it. Such speed just doesn't happen in DMC naturally at all. And the reason D/V can do that is Yamato, if Sam or Raiden had it they could do the same better. Where as someone like Bayonetta could probably take all 4 barehanded and no magic and win without a scratch.

We're talking about half-demons whose father is a demon that kicked too much ass that everyone knows their scent, this got talked about early in the topic. Their abilities are already far and above what a lot of other video game characters can do. It's only characters like Bayonetta and Ryu Hayabusa that are similar or above them.

Again they don't do anything in this match up that R/S don't do better. Bayo is above them FAR FAR above, and Ryu is below them.

In fact, the lore in games already states them to be beyond powerful. We don't even need to see it, we read it in the books the game carries or what other characters say.

And MGR lore has both R&S to be beyond powerful, we're comparing merit not myth.

I can just easily say, Ganondorf wins because only the Master Sword can truly beat him. Do we ever see him annihilate an entire city with a blast? No, but we know he can.


He is beyond powerful but loses all the time and never destroyed a city, if he could Link would never win. Merit not myth.

Diablo nor Ganondorf have done anything impressive either in games for example. But we know they are able to brush off any other boss in their entire games.


Being the strongest in your own game doesn't matter in a crossover fight. Price from CoD is a straight badass in his game but couldn't hope to injure anyone in this topic.

From: sworder | #235
Teleport, instantly regenerate from being bisected, stop time, create invulnerable doppelganger, etc.

Vergil draws his sword so quick that he'd kill both Sam and Raiden before they realized what happened


They can't do the bold in this fight and Raiden would certainly see it with all his tech and Sam has enough training to tell it is coming.
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Oni Seraph: Be humble on your path.
You have nothing to prove to anyone, not even yourself. Trust yourself, always.
#237Robin_MaskPosted 5/9/2013 3:24:57 PM(edited)
Oni Seraph posted...
Diablo nor Ganondorf have done anything impressive either in games for example. But we know they are able to brush off any other boss in their entire games.


Being the strongest in your own game doesn't matter in a crossover fight. Price from CoD is a straight badass in his game but couldn't hope to injure anyone in this topic.

From: sworder | #235
Teleport, instantly regenerate from being bisected, stop time, create invulnerable doppelganger, etc.

Vergil draws his sword so quick that he'd kill both Sam and Raiden before they realized what happened


They can't do the bold in this fight and Raiden would certainly see it with all his tech and Sam has enough training to tell it is coming.


Just gonna summarize.

Diablo can annihilate anyone he wants in Diablo III, only a Nephilim can hurt him. Ganondorf can only be beaten by the Master Sword. We're not going by gameplay like in MVC and Smash Bros anyway.

Price only fights normal humans who are armed soldiers/mercenaries/terrorists. It's obvious he is going to lose to a cyborg who can resist bullets.

Why isn't it fair for the brothers to use abilities but fair to see Blade mode? Just looks like you're just nerfing to give the win to Raiden and Sam.
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#238Oni SeraphPosted 5/9/2013 3:31:38 PM
From: Robin_Mask | #237
Why isn't it fair for the brothers to use abilities but fair to see Blade mode? Just looks like you're just nerfing to give the win to Raiden and Sam.



TC wanted a good fight concerning the 4 with no shenanigans.
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Oni Seraph: Be humble on your path.
You have nothing to prove to anyone, not even yourself. Trust yourself, always.
#239Robin_MaskPosted 5/9/2013 3:47:10 PM
Oni Seraph posted...
From: Robin_Mask | #237
Why isn't it fair for the brothers to use abilities but fair to see Blade mode? Just looks like you're just nerfing to give the win to Raiden and Sam.



TC wanted a good fight concerning the 4 with no shenanigans.


Yep, unnecessary nerfing because of the bias.
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#240RaidenSam(Topic Creator)Posted 5/9/2013 4:12:57 PM
And what is the problem anyways? Isnt Vergil fast enough to battle Blade Mode? I thought it wasnt a problem for him?