So when did revenge come into the picture? (spoilers)

#11ukokira1Posted 2/12/2014 3:28:49 PM(edited)
Revenge for N'mani
Revenge for totally getting sick owned in Africa by Sam
Revenge for the children
Revenge for that mindf*** that Sam and Monsoon put Raiden through
Revenge for Wolf

It accumulates through the game.

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#12midsizelebowskiPosted 2/18/2014 4:46:17 PM
Raiden's getting revenge against the past that made him into a twisted killer. Even though the people that created him are now dead and gone, he can still get a degree of revenge against them by taking out his rage on people that are using children to create killers like him.

Raiden's revenge is much more idealistic than a typical revenge story. He's fighting the idea that might makes right and the ends justify the means. That philosophy was used to create him (use torture/indoctrination on a child to create the perfect warrior), and now he's using the strength that it gave him to fight against it, and its symbolic figurehead Armstrong.

I thought all of this was equally silly and awesome, loved the story even though it was incredibly over the top.
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#13PT_Piranha(Topic Creator)Posted 2/18/2014 5:53:24 PM
midsizelebowski posted...
Raiden's getting revenge against the past that made him into a twisted killer. Even though the people that created him are now dead and gone, he can still get a degree of revenge against them by taking out his rage on people that are using children to create killers like him.

Raiden's revenge is much more idealistic than a typical revenge story. He's fighting the idea that might makes right and the ends justify the means. That philosophy was used to create him (use torture/indoctrination on a child to create the perfect warrior), and now he's using the strength that it gave him to fight against it, and its symbolic figurehead Armstrong.

I thought all of this was equally silly and awesome, loved the story even though it was incredibly over the top.


But then Raiden started to use the ends to justify his means, and (as Armstrong pointed out) made right with his strength.

I feel like ideals, or purpose would be a more fitting theme to describe this game.
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#14midsizelebowskiPosted 2/19/2014 6:36:47 PM
PT_Piranha posted...

But then Raiden started to use the ends to justify his means, and (as Armstrong pointed out) made right with his strength.

I feel like ideals, or purpose would be a more fitting theme to describe this game.


Yes exactly, the inherent contradiction that Raiden uses the "might makes right" killer side of himself to fight against that very ideal is part of what makes him so interesting, and that scene where the ripper comes back to life so awesome.

And yes, there was definitely a lot of emphasis on ideals in this game, and the revenge angle wasn't immediately obvious as it usually is in the traditional/literal sense. But "revengeance" is a much cooler title than metal gear rising: idealism, lol. I do feel like the revenge theme came through very well in a more abstract sense though when you consider Raiden's past, the fact that he gets beaten up early by the organization he needs to take down helps to strengthen the theme.
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#15MurphysGhostPosted 2/22/2014 8:27:13 PM
ukokira1 posted...
Revenge for N'mani
Revenge for totally getting sick owned in Africa by Sam
Revenge for the children
Revenge for that mindf*** that Sam and Monsoon put Raiden through
Revenge for Wolf

It accumulates through the game.


This and....



midsizelebowski posted...

Yes exactly, the inherent contradiction that Raiden uses the "might makes right" killer side of himself to fight against that very ideal is part of what makes him so interesting, and that scene where the ripper comes back to life so awesome.

And yes, there was definitely a lot of emphasis on ideals in this game, and the revenge angle wasn't immediately obvious as it usually is in the traditional/literal sense. But "revengeance" is a much cooler title than metal gear rising: idealism, lol. I do feel like the revenge theme came through very well in a more abstract sense though when you consider Raiden's past,



This.


"What do you know about the weak? You weren't born poor. You've never been hungry. You don't know what it's like to fight, and steal, and kill- just to survive!"

"But you DID survive! Through sheer force of will, following your own set of rules! With your own two hands, you took back your life!"

"And now.... I'll take yours."


Man, I love this game way too much. It still strikes me how incredibly well it manages to be thought-provoking and incredibly ridiculous at the same time. Like, the whole Armstrong sequence has a lot of pretty interesting dialogue and ideas brought up, but the way it's framed by this completely over-the-top man-to-man war on top of a giant robot (that was built to scare people, not be an effective military weapon- just to make it even more absurd).... just priceless.
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#16hooahPosted 2/28/2014 12:00:12 PM
MurphysGhost posted...



Man, I love this game way too much. It still strikes me how incredibly well it manages to be thought-provoking and incredibly ridiculous at the same time. Like, the whole Armstrong sequence has a lot of pretty interesting dialogue and ideas brought up, but the way it's framed by this completely over-the-top man-to-man war on top of a giant robot (that was built to scare people, not be an effective military weapon- just to make it even more absurd).... just priceless.


couldn't agree more, I find the Armstrong bit (from the moment he exits Metal Gear) to be one of the best parts in all of gaming
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