FES or P3P - The most complete experience?

#21HollowNinjaPosted 7/19/2010 10:00:04 AM
Of course this is where we might run into problems, as I can never subscribe to this.

I can never "be" a character I did not create, I can follow his story but that's about it.


By that logic, you are not yourself, because you did not create yourself. You were created by a union of sperm and egg. You had absolutely no control over who you are.

Do you understand the flaws in your logic?
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#22FScellPosted 7/19/2010 10:07:57 AM

From: HollowNinja | #021
Of course this is where we might run into problems, as I can never subscribe to this.

I can never "be" a character I did not create, I can follow his story but that's about it.


By that logic, you are not yourself, because you did not create yourself. You were created by a union of sperm and egg. You had absolutely no control over who you are.

Do you understand the flaws in your logic?


Do you understand how absurd a counter this is?
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What can change the nature of a man?
#23vicegamer101Posted 7/19/2010 10:15:23 AM
P3P.

The combat system is better and the point and click interface makes the game faster.
#24Paradox_KnightPosted 7/19/2010 10:18:30 AM
We can't utilize that argument for the sole reason that, by nature, his thoughts are his. He already IS his own person. Now the matter you could address is if he IS his identity...

A person can be himself, but can also lie to himself and adopt a personality that is not his. Typically that is instinctively utilized from the way society shapes us, so that we can survive our day by day social interactions intact.

In a sense, these false personalities we adopt, these faces of gentleness and calm or these horrific attitudes of cruelty we take, could be considered the masks that are our Persona.

I'd dig into my theory of the existance of Masks and Walls in our society, it would actually fit with the theme of Persona... But it'd be way off subject.
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#25__crystal____Posted 7/19/2010 10:35:08 AM
Have you read up on Carl Jung? That's sort of what he already came up with in psychology.
#26HarvestrOfSoulsPosted 7/19/2010 10:36:04 AM
Are people seriously arguing for the AI control over self control? I mean, it was a nice change of pace when i first encountered P3, but manual control is infinitely better. Have you all forgotten Marin Karin? You know, that little skill that Mitsuru will cast regardless of what tactics you put her under? Even if you did like the AI control, it is not like it is excluded in this version. You can activate it any time you please, so using it to argue for FES over P3P version seems like grasping at straws to me.

In my view, P3P is the definitive experience. The only thing FES has over it is presentation (more adventure than visual-novel style), better graphics (which were not exactly pushing the PS2's limits anyway), and the Answer (yeah the endless debate over the quality of this episode speaks for itself).

In regards to the first point, after playing Persona on the psp, then playing P3P, the VN style kind of seems like it alludes to the first person perspective Toudou adopts in the first entry. Of course, you can argue against this with the fact that you only adopts a first person view in P1 in dungeons and in P3P dungeons are the only place you do NOT have a first person view. New interface allows for quick travel, and if you feel the icons take away from the exploration aspect you can simply turn them off. Admittedly, I felt they were watered down equivalents of the original overworld, but I got used to it much faster than I expected and it is no longer a point of contention at all for me.

Regarding the second point, I have never once heard of anyone playing Persona for the graphics in the first place. From what I have seen, RPG players tend value story, characters, interface, and battle mechanics compared to other game players, all of which remain fairly untouched in P3P over FES.

I won't even go into The Answer because my own view regarding its worth is far from objective. I will grant that if you enjoyed it, then it is a solid point that can be used to argue it is more definitive than P3P.

What I don't understand is the complaints I have seen on this board that indicate this version is far easier than its PS2 equivalent. P3P has a brand new difficulty level. Keep the AI turned in throughout all of that and you got yourself a real challenge (one that I don't exactly intend to take up myself, but is there nonetheless for those looking for the hardcore experience).

Also sprach Harvestr
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#27CrimsonmistPosted 7/19/2010 10:39:35 AM
I will honestly say: Get both. Choose one and get the other later. I'd recommend Fes if you want more content in terms of fighting. P3P if you're more interested in social links for the FeMC, but for the most complete experience just pick both up.
#28HollowNinjaPosted 7/19/2010 10:41:29 AM
Are people seriously arguing for the AI control over self control? I mean, it was a nice change of pace when i first encountered P3, but manual control is infinitely better. Have you all forgotten Marin Karin? You know, that little skill that Mitsuru will cast regardless of what tactics you put her under? Even if you did like the AI control, it is not like it is excluded in this version. You can activate it any time you please, so using it to argue for FES over P3P version seems like grasping at straws to me.

In my view, P3P is the definitive experience. The only thing FES has over it is presentation (more adventure than visual-novel style), better graphics (which were not exactly pushing the PS2's limits anyway), and the Answer (yeah the endless debate over the quality of this episode speaks for itself).

In regards to the first point, after playing Persona on the psp, then playing P3P, the VN style kind of seems like it alludes to the first person perspective Toudou adopts in the first entry. Of course, you can argue against this with the fact that you only adopts a first person view in P1 in dungeons and in P3P dungeons are the only place you do NOT have a first person view. New interface allows for quick travel, and if you feel the icons take away from the exploration aspect you can simply turn them off. Admittedly, I felt they were watered down equivalents of the original overworld, but I got used to it much faster than I expected and it is no longer a point of contention at all for me.

Regarding the second point, I have never once heard of anyone playing Persona for the graphics in the first place. From what I have seen, RPG players tend value story, characters, interface, and battle mechanics compared to other game players, all of which remain fairly untouched in P3P over FES.

I won't even go into The Answer because my own view regarding its worth is far from objective. I will grant that if you enjoyed it, then it is a solid point that can be used to argue it is more definitive than P3P.

What I don't understand is the complaints I have seen on this board that indicate this version is far easier than its PS2 equivalent. P3P has a brand new difficulty level. Keep the AI turned in throughout all of that and you got yourself a real challenge (one that I don't exactly intend to take up myself, but is there nonetheless for those looking for the hardcore experience).

Also sprach Harvestr


Did you even read Paradox_Knight's post? I'll admit that I was one of those who hated AI control at first, but just a few minutes of P3P made me realize how much of a difference it made. It basically helps establish one of the main themes of the game.

I won't try to argue this from a gameplay point of view, because gameplay-wise Direct Command is better. But as far as the actual game experience goes, AI control is better. If you use Direct Command, you will take away so much less from Persona 3 once you finish it.

Another thing is that certain early-game bosses are needlessly difficult due to the P4 system. Dancing Hands anyone?
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#29FScellPosted 7/19/2010 10:43:23 AM
Er, what about dancing hands?

I don't remember them being any harder.
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What can change the nature of a man?
#30Paradox_KnightPosted 7/19/2010 10:48:25 AM
To HarvestrOfSouls:

I... don't know where to begin. No wait. I do.

Knock Down
Full Assault

Mitsuru will never use Marin Karin. I know, because she was a mainstay, and I've never seen her use it.

I've also never seen her use Spirit Drain or whatever that technique is. It's easy to direct Mitsuru into an all focused offensive frenzy... Knock Down or Full Assault. I always ignore these "it's impossible to get my allies to do what I want" because in the end, they can always do whatever they want, within their confines and limits, which will ultimately guide you to what you desired out of them in the first place.

Akihiko and Aigis are gambles due to full access to all debuffs/buffs. But you ultimately get the result you wanted from them, an all around buff/debuff.

Junpei provided guaranteed protection, so he made a perfect wingman.

Koromaru provided guaranteed Sukukaja, to those who prefered dodging.

Junpei, Koromaru and Aigis provided guaranteed full buff in one turn.

The only dangerous gambles were the healers, since they didn't always do group healing. Which can be classified into "Yukari and Ken have a poor ability of judgement"... Which curiously, is actually correct.

===========SPOILER===========

Yukari always leads the group into trouble because of how stupid she acts.

Ken causes one horrible thing to occur because of how selfish and blind he is.

Both, cases of poor ability of judgement.

========SPOILER OVER=========

I will give point to the fact that we're given a first person view of the character's interpersonal relations. But it doesn't derive the fact that the main character has a body to begin with. Giving you a god's eye view doesn't detract from identifying yourself to the Protagonist...

Which brings me back to the visual layout of Persona 3 on the PS2.

And this is where I want to slap you in the face for being an idiot...

Who the hell said that Persona 3 on the PS2 was more definitive because of good graphics? What we're talking is presentation.

Animation, seeing what the characters are actively doing or the sillyness of their act. Little details like Junpei's hat jumping off of him when he panics, yet always landing perfectly back on his head. Elizabeth, sliding down a kid's ramp while standing up, showing off just how much alien she is to our world....

This is lacking from Persona 3 Portable, and is part of a Definitive experience, since these little animations can convey a lot of emotion. Pictures above words, images that can tell more then a description could.

The visual novel is useful for it's condensed shape in our PSP. But it doesn't convey all the interactions as well as actually seeing what the characters are up to...

This limited vision is one of the details keeping Persona 3 Portable from being the definitive version, and thus, adds to the debate.

Is Persona 3: FES the definitive version or is Persona 3 Portable the right one?

And no. I'm not factoring "The Answer" in it, because I actively aknowledge the controversy in it as well as how it's basically defined as a piece of poor fanfiction. What I'm talking about is the Core. "The Journey"
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"Then next time, I'll take a pose when I'm in great condition. OROBAS!!!" -Junpei Iori, P3 Tartarus Theatre
Evolving: FacePalm, HeadDesk, BodyWall tm