The discussions on this forum are proof of how powerful this game is.

#1Ernst_JungerPosted 1/1/2013 11:28:11 AM
The game has good enough mechanics, mediocre multiplayer, no super weapons, no cinematic frills like "Modern Warfare."

The game is carried by the narrative and top-notch voice acting. If anything, it's made other games I once cherished dull and bland -- despite their often superior gameplay. I hope other developers see the value in this kind of storytelling, and that other moral dimensions can be explored short of checkpoint runs and clean sweeps of meaningless enemies from Point A to Point B.

The developers' efforts weren't necessarily rewarded economically, but I'm hoping that others may take notice of the core community that appreciates this game, and pillages the IP for ideas.

From what I can tell, some posters have picked up copies of Joseph Conrad's "Heart of Darkness" and they have sought other literature with similar themes.
#2BruteFMPosted 1/1/2013 6:53:05 PM
I hope not.

I have not finished this game. I will not finish this game. To get to the end requires you to do some seriously reprehensible stuff, which the writers fully acknowledge and taunt you with. They want you to quit playing and feel guilt.

To their credit, that happened, but if I'd paid full price at launch for this game, I'd be furious. I'm already wary of whatever they'll make next, and I definitely don't want other devs trying to take the same path.
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#3Black_CheesePosted 1/1/2013 8:30:03 PM
BruteFM posted...
want you to quit playing


I hope you realize how ridiculous this is.
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#4Creeping_DarkPosted 1/1/2013 9:17:27 PM
Black_Cheese posted...
BruteFM posted...
want you to quit playing


I hope you realize how ridiculous this is.


More accurately, they want us to be aware that even when there's "no choice" there's always the option of just stopping. The developers may be responsible for what happens at the gate, but that doesn't mean the player is free of guilt. Simply by following through with the game we must take responsibility for what the developer placed on us. In a broader sense, we as consumers are just as guilty as the developers who continually build games that reward violence and brutality.
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#5BruteFMPosted 1/2/2013 6:45:15 AM
Black_Cheese posted...
BruteFM posted...
want you to quit playing


I hope you realize how ridiculous this is.


http://www.giantbomb.com/news/this-is-all-your-fault/4291/

“We wanted the player to be stuck in that same kind of situation, even to the point of maybe hating us, as the designer, or hating the game for, in many ways, tricking them, making them feel like we had cheated the experience and forced them to do this thing,” said Williams. “They would have to decide whether or not they could choose to keep playing a game like this after this moment, or if they would be pissed to the point of putting the controller down and saying ‘No, this is too much for me, I’m done with this. **** this game.’”

Straight from the mouth of the lead writer.
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#6Black_CheesePosted 1/2/2013 8:51:13 AM
BruteFM posted...
http://www.giantbomb.com/news/this-is-all-your-fault/4291/

“We wanted the player to be stuck in that same kind of situation, even to the point of maybe hating us, as the designer, or hating the game for, in many ways, tricking them, making them feel like we had cheated the experience and forced them to do this thing,” said Williams. “They would have to decide whether or not they could choose to keep playing a game like this after this moment, or if they would be pissed to the point of putting the controller down and saying ‘No, this is too much for me, I’m done with this. **** this game.’”

Straight from the mouth of the lead writer.


Still, saying that they simply "want you to quit playing" isn't accurate. Creeping_Dark was more accurate with his post. They wanted the player to feel guilty (you were right about that) and more importantly, they wanted players to raise their own questions when it comes to their actions in video games. From your link.

Spec Ops does not seem to make a definitive statement. It’s certainly playing devil’s advocate, but Williams doesn’t want players to come away with the impression that Yager, Williams, or 2K Games was out to advocate a particular stance. Rather, by the end, hopefully you’ve raised your own set of questions.

Take note of the words "by the end". A goal to simply get players to stop playing is ridiculous as it is completely cutting the player away from a large portion of the game's narrative. Both the buildup to the end, and the ending itself are very important in conveying the writer's message. From your link.

The emotions weighing over the player when the credits roll are heavy, mixed, and contradictory, especially so if you experience the epilogue. I do feel bad sometimes for liking shooters, especially today’s awfully realistic ones, and Spec Ops was a useful outlet to explore these complicated questions. We know there is more at work than indulging in senseless violence, but Spec Ops forces us to ponder whether we’re pretending it’s not an issue at all.

Obviously you can't quite get to the credits if you quit in the middle of the game. You need to play the game fully to completely understand the message the game is trying to send. From your link.

Williams believed people would better understand Spec Ops after playing it, where the story had room to breathe, and he was right.

Perhaps, it's the wording of your post I had problems with. I'll admit, the writers clearly did want to put the idea of quitting in the player's mind. But in no way was the writer's goal simply to make the player want to quit. In your post, you're accusing the writers of simply wanting the player to quit. Then you go on to state that you would have been angry if you paid full price for the game as you did quit, and therefore did not experience a full game. That part in particular, where you basically accuse the game of not being a complete experience, is probably why I chose to jump on your post in the first place. If you quit the game, that's your fault. The writer's obviously prefer that players finish the game. I have no idea why you would be furious for your own choice in quitting the game.
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#7BruteFMPosted 1/2/2013 9:51:18 AM
Black_Cheese posted...
Perhaps, it's the wording of your post I had problems with. I'll admit, the writers clearly did want to put the idea of quitting in the player's mind. But in no way was the writer's goal simply to make the player want to quit. In your post, you're accusing the writers of simply wanting the player to quit. Then you go on to state that you would have been angry if you paid full price for the game as you did quit, and therefore did not experience a full game. That part in particular, where you basically accuse the game of not being a complete experience, is probably why I chose to jump on your post in the first place. If you quit the game, that's your fault. The writer's obviously prefer that players finish the game. I have no idea why you would be furious for your own choice in quitting the game.


Ah, I understand you now. Yes, I did oversimplify the point. I understand that there is more to be experienced, and I'm choosing to forgo that, and that is completely my fault.

But let's be clear about one thing.

Big spoilers.

I'm not furious because I quit. I'm furious about the stuff they make you do if you want to see the game through to the end. That I would have paid $60 for a game that requires you to wage all out war on your fellow countrymen, massacre hundreds of them (and innocent civilians) with a chemical incendiary weapon, and condemn the rest of the survivors you were sent to find to death by dehydration in order to reach the end.

I'm not okay with that. I realize they want me to not be okay with that and that is the whole point of this game. Mission accomplished.
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#8Black_CheesePosted 1/2/2013 10:38:17 AM
Hmm, alright, I can see where you're coming from now that you've elaborated on your points. I would recommend to try finishing the game if you can ever bring yourself to do it though. For myself at least, it was quite a unique experience. And I'll leave it at that.
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#9BruteFMPosted 1/2/2013 11:08:44 AM
Black_Cheese posted...
Hmm, alright, I can see where you're coming from now that you've elaborated on your points. I would recommend to try finishing the game if you can ever bring yourself to do it though. For myself at least, it was quite a unique experience. And I'll leave it at that.


I might. Just... not now. Not feeling it, or the urge to play another shooter. :\
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#10d1sPosted 1/2/2013 1:10:53 PM
Spoilers

I never looked at it as "the horrors that I was committing." Not exactly. i played through the game without spoilers about what was to come, and I did my best to pay attention to the details. I did my best to put myself in Walker's shoes and decide "what would I do were I in that situation."

I enjoy the way the "moral choices" were presented. It was very natural, and didn't break the flow of the game. Unlike previous moral choices in which the gameplay comes to an abrupt halt, and you're told to press one button or the other. Those kinds of choices allow me to "sober up." The way it was done in Spec Ops is very "heat of the moment, go with your gut."

I chose to not shot the CIA agent that was trapped beneath the truck. There were several layers here. I didn't choose to not shoot him because I wanted him to die a slow, painful death. I chose to not shot him thinking:

"I'm not going to kill you. But I don't have to save you either."

It was only when his body caught on fire and I heard him screaming that I shot him, but it was a act of mercy. I think the end game try to spin this as though I shot him out of anger over the CIA's true purpose in Dubai. It was interesting to me that it could be interpreted that way. My actions could be taken as horrendous, when I was in fact acting out of mercy.

From the beginning of the game though I kept thinking "Walker! Call it in! Radio for back up!" Each time he brushed Lugo's suggestion aside and decided to press on just a little bit further I kept thinking

"There is no way I would do that. You're not here to fight out what's going on. Report in!"

As for the incident at the gate, I was detached thinking "I would not have used the white phosphorous." As Lugo was saying, there's always another way and we've seen what that stuff does. Do not used the phosphorous. So like Walker blaming Konrad for it, I blamed Walker. I said "this wasn't my fault. I didn't want to do it but I didn't have a choice."

This game has a terrific depth, but I never stop to think of it as "trying to send a message to me the player." I know that's a part of it, but I think of it more as reading a book. I don't think of the author as trying to prove anything to the person that reads that kind of book. I simply wanted to see Walker's journey, and what the consequences of his actions/in actions were.
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