Playing through a second time... I feel like they give away...*spoilers*

#1soothsayer77Posted 1/4/2013 10:41:30 AM
The white phosphorous scene if you kill the two soldiers that are talking about the beauty of Dubai before they see you.

If you do this, you hear more 33rd talking in a room below. A leading officier asks if the were able to get the civilians, and when they say only a few, the officier seems genuinely concerned.

I didn't see this the first time, and maybe it's because I know what happens now, but I feel like this really gives away that scene. Seeing all those white blobs grouped together anyway had me second guessing the first time I did it, if I would've seen this scene I'm sure I would've known what's up.

BTW, playing through this a second time is just downright creepy. Knowing I'm just massacring innocent 33rd soldiers and all of Walker's "heroic" lines of encouragement ("orders ain't worth following if it means leaving people to die Lugo...") just....*shudder.*
#2K181Posted 1/4/2013 10:13:06 PM
Well, hindsight is 20/20. Looking back on it, it's clear that they're talking about how they're good guys. At the time, when you didn't know there was a schism in the 33rd, was just a bit confusing but oh well, they have a high-and-mighty opinion of themselves, gun 'em down!
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#3Matt_Man_2004Posted 1/4/2013 10:16:49 PM
Hmm, I played that scene for the first time yesterday and I knew the white dots were civilians. I also overheard that conversation. I'm not sure if the reason I knew though was because of hearing that conversation...

Either way it seems like a chunk of the impact of that scene has been lost on me sadly because of knowing what I was doing.
#4KomaniaPosted 1/4/2013 10:17:36 PM
Wait, so only like half of the 33rd are the "bad guys", correct?

Also, what the hell is the CIA doing there?

I'm so confused :/
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#5soothsayer77(Topic Creator)Posted 1/5/2013 12:59:16 AM
Komania posted...
Wait, so only like half of the 33rd are the "bad guys", correct?

Also, what the hell is the CIA doing there?

I'm so confused :/


Have you finished the game yet?

*spoilers*

The CIA are there to try and wipe the city clean, so that the world never hears about the 33rd going rouge, running their own little government and such in Dubai.

Also, I'm not entirely sure any of the 33rd you are fighting are "bad guys". Even the sketchy soldier that's getting interrogated by the CIA agent says "Dubai would be at peace right now if you hadn't gotten the people shooting soldiers again."

There was some kind of conflict with the soldiers because of the executed and burned soldiers you find, but that could've been settled before Delta squad even arrived. As far as I can tell, even the earliest 33rd soldiers you fight are trying to gather civilians saying "this is for your own good!". They just shoot at you because they think you're CIA, who had obviously been messing stuff up for the 33rd.

After that, they just come at you because of the fact that your squad had killed hundreds of their men and civilians and you were still pushing.

I'm playing through again so I'm not positive, but damn that's eerie if that's how it is.
#6soothsayer77(Topic Creator)Posted 1/5/2013 2:41:18 AM
Well, after playing more (I'm right up to the gate now), I forgot how many things are thrown in to keep you guessing.

Gould seeming like such a fine and swell guy and making the rest of the CIA look good along with him.

The 33rd executing civies in front of Gould.

The massive stash of 33rd bodies in that pit.

Now I'm not even sure if my thoughts on the 33rd in the game being all "good" are right.

Such an awesome game.
#7Ice_Cold1313Posted 1/15/2013 11:56:47 PM
soothsayer77 posted...
Well, after playing more (I'm right up to the gate now), I forgot how many things are thrown in to keep you guessing.

Gould seeming like such a fine and swell guy and making the rest of the CIA look good along with him.

The 33rd executing civies in front of Gould.

The massive stash of 33rd bodies in that pit.

Now I'm not even sure if my thoughts on the 33rd in the game being all "good" are right.

Such an awesome game.


There do not seem to be any "good guys" in this story. The Damned 33rd are trying to keep order in Dubai to facilitate the aid/evacuation effort, but are having to resort to increasingly questionable and repressive measures to do so (such as 'sandboarding' civilians and the first use of WP). The 33rd Rebels (I think in canon they are called the Exiles) had, if my interpretation is correct (i missed a few intel items), tried a coup with the end result of pulling the 33rd out of Dubai. However I THINK that this has been settled, and the Damned had defeated the Exiles before the beginning of the game.

The CIA want to bury the city and everything that happened. This means the eradication of the 33rd and every remaining survivor in Dubai. However they are doing this to save the US, as they think if this gets out it is going to mean war that they are not certain the US can win.

And then the player comes in and proceeds to just make everything... well, worse.

Everyone is a hero in this story, but no one makes anything any better.

Konrad (alive) and the Damned are undertaking the noble cause of trying to help the stranded people of Dubai and they do this by keeping order whatever the cost (and spoiler - the cost is quite high).

The 33rd Exiles believed that Konrad and the core elements of the 33rd are completely out of line, and they had the noble cause of trying to bring the unit back into the fold of the rest of the US Army. However it is likely that this conflict only caused the people further suffering and expedited the Damned's repressive policies (now this one I admit I'm not as sure of, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong).

The CIA are attempting to avoid an even larger war that would claim even more lives than would be lost in Dubai and perhaps severely damage the USA. However their plan of course requires the whole city, both the civilians and the remnants of the 33rd to die of dehydration.

Walker... well he is trying to save both the civilians and the 33rd. But he can't come to terms with the fact that his heroics are causing him to become the "villain." He seems to have this preconception of what a "hero" is and he keeps trying to strive towards it, but the harder he pushes and the harder he drives himself and his men towards that hero archetype, the further he falls away from it. Whenever he is about to realize that he is becoming the villain, he covers it up by telling himself it is Konrad's fault, so that he can convince himself that he is STILL the hero to the detriment of everyone else (and I mean EVERYONE). Pretty depressing stuff.

Also for the record I thought they were civilians too, but I thought they were already dead. I still took Walker to be a reliable narrator at this point and I couldn't imagine my COD-esque bad-guys to be protecting civilians of all things!

(sorry for the wall of text)
#8brunbbmercPosted 1/31/2013 12:37:25 AM
that was a fantastic explanation dude
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#9Ice_Cold1313Posted 2/2/2013 7:23:05 PM
lol I try :)
#10mad_hax_manPosted 2/9/2013 9:34:43 PM
I was under the impression that it was only Riggs that wanted to wipe out Dubai
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