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Whos Better: Blaziken, Infernape, or Enbuoh?

#51trutenorPosted 10/22/2010 12:03:19 AM
This is one of those questions that doesn't have a clear cut answer...

One thing that I've noticed about Enbuoh is that it has a couple of traits of both Blaziken and Infernape. It has Blaziken's massive attack stats as well as Infernapes vast special movepool. But anyway, my personal opinion. What pokemon is best depends on what role you need a fire/fighting type for...

Leading/annoyer-Infernape (Fake out, Taunt, Torment, Stealth Rock, Mach Punch, Vacuum Wave).

Physical attacker- DW Blaziken (High Jump Kick, Flare Blitz, Reversal). Infernape's physical movepool is good, but it doesn't have the raw power and diversity that Blaziken has. Enbuoh hits even harder with the most damaging moves (Wild Bolt, Head Smash, Heat Stamp, Flare Blitz), unfortunately, three of those moves cause recoil damage. In addition, Enbuoh is slow.

Special attacker- On paper, Enbuoh would be best because in addition to getting grass knot like Infernape, it also gets Boiling Water. Unfortunately, Enbuoh's base 65 speed (the same as Flareon) doesn't really do it any favors against things faster then it. Blaziken's special movepool is abmysal compared to the others ( focus blast has horrible accuracy, solar beam requires a 2 turn charge, and you can't have vacuum wave and speed boost at the same time). If you can get some speed boosts in (either via baton pass or nitro boost), then Enbuoh has this category, otherwise just stick with Infernape.

Hit and run- Infernape. That initial 109 base speed + diverse movepool+U turn definitely helps Infernape out here. Enbuoh is too slow to pull this, and Blaziken isn't fast from turn 1.

Tank- technically, you shouldn't be trying to take hits with any of them, but that massive HP stat means that Enbuoh can survive a little bit longer then the other two...

Supporter- See Leading/annoyer. Infernape is best in this category for having support options. Being one of the very few pokemon (especially ones that aren't rock/ground steel type) that can set up stealth rock is definitely a plus, considering that stealth rock lost its tm priviledge in the 5th generation. Outside of Baton passing some speed, Blaziken doesn't really have anything on support options, and Enbuoh doesn't really have anything period.

Mixed Attacker. This one is a little bit tricker... All three have decent enough movepools to go mix (without putting egg moves into the equation). But in my opinion, I would go with Blaziken for a physical mix and Infernape for a special mix. Enbuoh is just shafted either way due to the speed...

Revenge killer. Both Blaziken and Infernape are good. Blaziken because of the speed boost, Infernape because of the priority moves and initial speed boost.

This is just my opinion. Feel free to disagree or correct me or offer better insight...
#52schlimanokobibiPosted 10/22/2010 2:20:31 AM
People on Smogon are really impressed by the speed Emboar gets when he uses nitro charge. Makes me think what happens when he pulls off two...
I think that if you switch in on something locked into seed bomb or something, and do a nitro charge on the switch or for the finish, you got yourself a potent reckless sweeper.

Without dream world, though, he is outclassed by Nape. After a Nitro Charge he eats Blazikens for diner, though.
And high-jump kick is a really risky move. What happens when the opponent uses protect? Blaziken is gone.
Oh, and Speed boost + Vacuum wave = impossible
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#53M1AstrayPosted 10/22/2010 3:44:01 AM
"You sir, are a bufoon."

How exactly am I a bufoon? Any competitive player worth his salt knows that when deciding which pokemon is better at doing something you look at how well it can do it, however, since you decided to do an unrealistic comparison, allow me to elaborate how it would actually go:

Right, I've got an infernape vs a Blaziken, say I know Blaziken and how it plays (actually I do, one of it's problems is using protect), I know full well you're going to use protect, however I don't just sit there, I use Swords Dance (might as well set-up), I then proceed to one-hit Blaziken next turn with an Iron fist boosted, Life Orb boosted (maybe), and a Swords Dance Boosted, STAB boosted, Mach Punch.

As I said earlier, Speed Boost Blaziken is way to predictable, either he'll use protect, in which case I set-up, Swords Dance, again I set-up, or a move that quite possibly won't k-o me, in which case I still set-up, either way Blaziken is way to predictable, and there's only one move you'd use in such a situation because of a potential STAB Close Combat.
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#54BlueSophiaPosted 10/22/2010 4:31:51 AM
As I said earlier, Speed Boost Blaziken is way to predictable, either he'll use protect, in which case I set-up, Swords Dance, again I set-up, or a move that quite possibly won't k-o me, in which case I still set-up, either way Blaziken is way to predictable, and there's only one move you'd use in such a situation because of a potential STAB Close Combat.

Are you... serious? Just because Protect is a viable way to get one free turn of speed doesn't mean you have to use it. While you are busy mortgaging your farm for that extra attack, Blaziken is free to do whatever it wants. No matter what, in a straight fight, Blaziken still wins because it can learn both Aerial Ace and Brave Bird (overkill). And word to the wise, Infernape doesn't have a move that can KO it in one hit without boosting. You might as well invest in a focus sash.
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#55trutenorPosted 10/22/2010 7:28:26 AM
People on Smogon are really impressed by the speed Emboar gets when he uses nitro charge. Makes me think what happens when he pulls off two...
I think that if you switch in on something locked into seed bomb or something, and do a nitro charge on the switch or for the finish, you got yourself a potent reckless sweeper.

Without dream world, though, he is outclassed by Nape. After a Nitro Charge he eats Blazikens for diner, though.
And high-jump kick is a really risky move. What happens when the opponent uses protect? Blaziken is gone.
Oh, and Speed boost + Vacuum wave = impossible


Well I have an Emboar on my team, and that is the exact same strategy that I use. Mine has nitro charge, Heat Stamp, Brick Break, and Rock Slide. Against something that can't OhKO me, takes 2 hits to kill, or dies to one fire attack, I use Nitro charge. I then proceed to start sweeping with insane attack and more speed.

My issue with this though is that if you go for the extremely strong moves (Flare Blitz, Head Smash, Wild Bolt), then Emboar will be killing himself very quickly (especially if you go with the reckless ability), but then again, it seems like Emboar was meant to be played like a life orber.

And yes, I did mention that Blaziken can't use Speed boost and vacuum wave on the same set. The only priority move that DW Blaziken gets access to is quick attack, which is kinda meh without stab or technician.

HJK is definitely a high risk, high payoff move, but that's just the risk that you gotta take.

Are you... serious? Just because Protect is a viable way to get one free turn of speed doesn't mean you have to use it. While you are busy mortgaging your farm for that extra attack, Blaziken is free to do whatever it wants. No matter what, in a straight fight, Blaziken still wins because it can learn both Aerial Ace and Brave Bird (overkill). And word to the wise, Infernape doesn't have a move that can KO it in one hit without boosting. You might as well invest in a focus sash.

For the record, Infernape does learn acrobat (Blaziken can by tm) by level up. Infernape also has fake out + two stab priority moves (the only fire/fighting to do so), so in a match up, Infernape gets two free hits before Blaziken can do anything (unless DW Blaziken uses a combination of Protect and/or quick attack). This doesn't mean that Infernape wins, but it doesn't mean that Blaziken automatically does either.
#56PokerChamp42Posted 10/22/2010 8:10:04 AM
Are you... serious? Just because Protect is a viable way to get one free turn of speed doesn't mean you have to use it. While you are busy mortgaging your farm for that extra attack, Blaziken is free to do whatever it wants. No matter what, in a straight fight, Blaziken still wins because it can learn both Aerial Ace and Brave Bird (overkill). And word to the wise, Infernape doesn't have a move that can KO it in one hit without boosting. You might as well invest in a focus sash.

The fact that you're even suggesting Aerial Ace on Blaziken means we should disregard what you say.

Also, if it's a 1-on-1, Infernape beats Blaziken every single time.

Infernape can run Fake Out + Close Combat + Mach Punch, which beats Blaziken every time.

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#57Kenpachi2HandsPosted 10/22/2010 5:37:18 PM
Protect, Hi Jump Kick, Quick Attack.
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