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Excadrill and garchomp are OP?

#21TheNargacugaPosted 6/21/2012 11:22:03 AM
Garchomp should have a counter focus sash ice shard with max atk evs from a mamoswine. It shouldn't be banned just because of sand veil. :/ Sometimes I think smogon just bans just to ban. The same kind of deal goes for speed boost Blaziken pure power azumarrill with aqua jet. :/
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#22FlareRDB(Topic Creator)Posted 6/21/2012 11:22:38 AM
Chaos Genesis posted...
FlareRDB posted...
I usually agree with a lot of smogons logic, but when it comes to the whole sandstorm poostorm debate I have to disagree with their banishment to "uber tier". If your team doesn't have your answer to a problem, then you deserve to lose. It's like no one ever heard of counter weather or priority moves before.


You do realize that a counter has to come in, tank a hit, and then defeat the Pokémon, right? Nothing can do that reliably to Garchomp.


It depends on the context of the battle, I'm a huge fan of counter play. I always have counter weather to get rid of the sandstorm bonus. Let's say I lead with politoad, I know I'll always get drizzle up before the storm because I'm faster. The opponents option is to let the t-tar die in one hit, switch into excadrill (who would die) or garchomp (die). They have 3 other pokemon you could predict on incoming. Just by having a weather of your own, you defeated the gimmicky sandstorm boosts because everyone is faster than t-tar and hippowdon, even a priority rain dance would poop on their parade.

Really the question isn't that I'm going to take the hit, but how are they going to take the hit. In the end it just boils down to someone in smogon being very conservative and not wanting to adapt. Believe it or not, the meta game is forever changing and there's plenty of strong combinations. If they were discovered, then they would probably be banned for the same reason.

If your team doesn't have an answer to a problem, then it wasn't a very good team to begin with.
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#23TheSaintGPosted 6/21/2012 12:10:28 PM
if ttar and politoed were sent out at the same time sand would be up not rain
and you wouldn't be ohko'ing ttar in sand with a hydro pump because of how bulky it is specially (even without evs its extremely bulky specially)
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#24NinjaOpsPosted 6/21/2012 12:12:12 PM
At best i would say Garchomp is borderline OP.
#25FlareRDB(Topic Creator)Posted 6/21/2012 12:34:35 PM
TheSaintG posted...
if ttar and politoed were sent out at the same time sand would be up not rain
and you wouldn't be ohko'ing ttar in sand with a hydro pump because of how bulky it is specially (even without evs its extremely bulky specially)

I'd personally use focus blast or a fighting type variant move on the t-tar, 4x weakness isn't fun to deal with. Most teams have at least one pokemon with a fighting type move that can handle steels and darks.
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#26vboy12Posted 6/21/2012 12:43:07 PM
i don't think excadrill is overpowered, his base stat total is very low
#27helldewPosted 6/21/2012 2:08:04 PM
BST doesnt mean jack its about where your stats are. if they are in the right place it makes your pokemon good. plain and simple a prime example. is scizor. he has the exact same BST as his preevolved form yet he is insanely overused or was (i havent been keeping tabs)
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#28SouretsuPosted 6/21/2012 5:03:58 PM
From: QualiT | #019
Assuming this set;
Excadrill @ Life Orb / Air Balloon
Trait: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 ATK / 252 SPE
Adamant Nature (+atk, -spatk)
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance
- X-Scissor / Rapid Spin

Gliscor, Skarmory, Ferrothorn and Tangrowth (watch for X-Scissor) all can throw a wrench in Excadrill's sweep unless Exca has gained too many boosts.
Skarmory can wall +2 Excadrill because it fails to be 2hko'd by Rock Slide, but be wary of flinching because that will definitely shut Skarm down.
252 HP/184 DEF Gliscor can withstand more than 2 hits from Rock Slide (48% - 56.5%) with Poison Heal recovery and Protect and proceed to Swords dance in Exca's face but again be careful of Rock Slide flinches.
Ferrothorn can take two of Excadrill's Earthquakes (45.5% - 54%) factoring leftovers and set up spikes with its standard defensive spread but cannot do much back besides Protect and Leech Seed.
Tangrowth can wall Excadrill's Earthquakes all day but comes to problems when faced with X-Scissor, barely missing a chance to be OHKO'd with rocks up (78.2% - 92.6%); Tangrowth can then proceed to Sleep Powder Excadrill and pivot the match in your favor as you can then leech seed and stall it out ever so slowly barX-Scissor.

those are some decent checks, if they're not using x scissor then stuff like slowbro can come in and potentially cripple it with scald.

Another check is balloon terrakion, rock polish up in that suckers face and then wreck s*** with close combat.

Not too mention that ninetails and politoed both check it becvause they remove the weather and can OHKO with there stab moves, and because dugtrio is pretty common, TTar can easily be trapped and eliminated leaving excadrtill helpess once the weather has changed.


Alright, I can see what you're going with here, but they're not necessarily counters. None of those guys can switch in on an Excadrill and immediately force it out, and so technically aren't counters. Checks aren't counters, either.

Skarmory and Ferrothorn can switch in okay, but what can they do then? Ferrothorn can't do jack to force Excadrill out without dying in the process. Skarmory may be able to take a hit, but again, basically has to sacrifice his usefulness to Whirlwind the stupid mole out (takes a big hit or two from Excadrill, losing Sturdy and quite possibly bringing out another pokemon that outspeeds it in the process).

Gliscor may can switch in alright, but being predicted really ruins his chances. And if Excadrill has a balloon, he's especially out of luck, as the Excadrill will just keep SDing until it pops.

Tangrowth has Sleep Powder, but 75 accuracy is shaky, and a sleep move alone might not be enough. Not to mention, as you said, X-Scissor. Pretty much every Excadrill will pack either X-Scissor or Brick Break, and I wanna say the former is more common.

As far as Terrakion goes, I guess you could sort of consider it a counter, as long as it switches in on Excadrill's SD. If it guesses wrong though, it's more up a creek than Gliscor could ever be. Especially if Excadrill's packing Brick Break instead of X-Scissor.

Well, actually, I take it back, it's still not really a counter. A counter needs to be able to switch in on most or all of a pokemon's moveset and immediately pose enough of a threat for it to retreat. None of these guys do that.
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#29anuticciwbPosted 6/21/2012 5:29:06 PM
He said checks >.>

Also if anyone couldn't tell, I'm not always 100% serious.
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#30BabySh0esPosted 6/21/2012 7:22:36 PM
anuticciwb posted...
Only one pokemon can counter haxorus, and none for lucario.
There are at least 5 excadrill counters.

So a lack of counters isn't the only thing that can make something OP >.>

And anyways, after excadrill was banned, more types of teams could be used as noteveryone had to spend half their team countering it.


Thats not true at all. Haxorus isnt an issue because its always choiced...even if it werent there are plenty of things that can outspeed and smash it. Nothing outsped excadrill in the sand. As for Lucario he totally has counters, they are just different depending on the 4th move he is running.

My point is that with good prediction its easy to counter lucario and haxorus. Hell every time i see a haxorus it becomes set up bait because of how predictable it is. But excadrill was different because of its stupidly high speed. Predict all you want that thing would still tear through your team late game.