About the Lighting/Shadowing/Normal Mapping

#11stufa1978Posted 4/3/2010 3:57:57 AM
The first TCon HVS wanted to show the Wii can make a great looking FPS to all gamers.
The rolling demos certainly got a hell of a response many good and quite a lot of fanboy critasism.

But with TCon 2. I can handle the game looking inferior to TCon1 in favor of the juicey add ons.
Infact if it's no better than an N64 FPS but with more gamplay add ons I'll be drooling with anticipation.

But if HVS does throw in some graphical treats, that'll be a bonus. If I wanted graphics over content I'd get a 360.
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#12VermineaterPosted 4/3/2010 5:53:39 AM

From: stufa1978 | #011
If I wanted graphics over content I'd get a 360.


Whenever someone says that, I'd usually call them a nintendo fanboy. (What content? like, 3 good games a year?) But I'm just gonna let it go.

Anyway, there's a lot of jargon in here that makes me feel stupid. How do you people know so much?
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#13HVSTony(VIP)Posted 4/3/2010 6:46:01 PM
Yes guys the gfx are getting a lot better but do keep in mind that like stated before, the wii GPU cannot do pixel shaders and its CPU can run less threads then even the PS2's CPU. So we need to spend or power very carefully. Trust me, wait for some video to be floored, the screenshots do no justice. Plus there pretty old compared to what we have now.

Tony
#14nintendomaniacPosted 4/3/2010 7:15:56 PM
Perhaps you should "cheat" then and put out some hi-res screenshots, like the ones taken on the Dolphin emulator :P

And Tony, ya know... it's not really a good idea to go around saying the Wii's GPU can't do shaders without menitoning TEV or that its CPU runs fewer threads than the PS2 without mentioning just how much faster it is.

You're going to give people the wrong impression.
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#15DarkZV2BetaPosted 4/3/2010 8:07:20 PM
Not to mention that, as stated, it's two ends to a means.
I'd just like some real shadows instead of those flat transparent models stuck below everything. Other games on both the Cube and Wii have done it. There should be some way to at least squeeze it in with a low D-dist and then swap out for stencil or blob shadows on farther objects.
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#16HVSTony(VIP)Posted 4/3/2010 11:37:58 PM
"And Tony, ya know... it's not really a good idea to go around saying the Wii's GPU can't do shaders without menitoning TEV or that its CPU runs fewer threads than the PS2 without mentioning just how much faster it is."

Why. Ive been working with wii dev hardware for 3 years now and know the ins and outs of what can be done vs's so called specs leaked on the internet. The first thing I can tell you is that Mhz mean nothing and the tev hardware does not account for everything everyone online (non devs) claim it does. You have the be smart with the wii. We are hammering the cpu and gpu just the same as any other wii game but we are doing it smarter. Our cpu/gpu usage is the exact same as a game like wii sports.

But yes, we are the only engine using normal mapping techniques on the wii GPU so we really have to pick and choose where the gpu/cpu cycles get spent.

What I can tell you is that the gfx are taking a huge bump from C1 and you guys haven't seen nothing yet :)
#17nintendomaniacPosted 4/4/2010 2:34:00 AM
It may be true, but the point is that pointing out what makes it less than something like the PS2 without pointing out what also makes it more gives OTHERS a bad impression.

Of course you guys know the hardware better than us, that wasn't the point. It's just that you only listed cons, and people can (and have in the past) take those cons as entire truths without knowing the rest of the story.

Examples:
Cannot do shaders (no mention of TEV at all)
Lower CPU clockrate than Xbox 1 (no mention that Xbox was x86 while Wii is PPC)


Basically I'm just sick and tired of various bits of FUD that get said about the Gamecube and Wii.
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#18The_ShaderPosted 4/4/2010 3:08:51 AM
@ DarkZV2Beta

Played F.E.A.R. Gears of War, Bioshock, The Darkness, Grand Theft Auto 4, and i've still yet to be 'wowed' by 'shadows'

why? cuz they're shadows. i got the games for my now broke 360 because they were apparently ****ing awesome. F.E.A.R. bored the crap outa me, Darkness had a lovely story (awesome ending) and Bioshock was an overall fun experience.

Graphics don't matter to me at all, dude. They either 'pass' or 'fail' for me, but the gameplay is what needs to be perfection. For example, Tcon is near fun perfection, because of the old school style of picking guns. Thats it....

Only game to make me go 'HOLY ****' by just the overall graphics was 'Shadow of the Colossas'
Never by shadows themselves.
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#19DarkZV2BetaPosted 4/4/2010 3:17:39 AM
Then you haven't got much appreciation for atmosphere or lighting based gameplay mechanics.
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#20stufa1978Posted 4/4/2010 5:55:22 AM
No Verminater You got me wrong. I'm not having a pop at 360s.

It's just to say if I wanted to go for a game because of graphics, surely I would have gone for the HD machines for that. I play on my friends' 360s like mad and love it. I am a bit of a Nintendo fan boy but I respect great games can come on all machines and loved to play the lot.

I'm just saying I'd sooner have basic graphics in favor of more juicey features. So I would be happy with a massive enhanced Doom 2 style game on Wii. If I could make a game I would try to have as many meanies on screen as I could. Or as many 2D sprites in an online game as I could.

I'd do a FPS stick man war if I could.Infact 360's XNA what ever it's calld is something I really envy on the machine.

Anyway The Mighty HVS Tony has spoken. We need more game engineers like this, who actually listen to what we game nutters say.
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